Tasteful pictures for Gentlemen of a certain age ...
 

Humm ... Sorry if you've been disappointed :p

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/...psa469e574.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/...pse8a946df.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/...pscfa9ab19.jpg

Image Credits : Aeroplane Icons

Amongst the dross on Twitter there are occasionally one or two gems. Recently Aeroplane Icons have been publishing some cracking colour and B&W images of classic RAF Aircraft ... and thought other Members might like to enjoy them too :ok:

https://twitter.com/Aeroplaneicons

There are a couple of 43 Squadron F3's in "Ballistic" pose by Tim McL ... which should please Courtney ... along with more EE Lightning pics for the WIWOL community :ok:

Best ...

Coff.

Not disappointed at all Coff.
My dad was Cpl i/c the paint shop and painted those Lightnings.

Uffers.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzCsp8pCcAAp5JT.jpg

Hehehe, I wonder if they are posting them as the magazine has been sold to Flypast. They have a huge database

Re the Gnat 'mishap'..........

ASN Aircraft accident 28-SEP-1966 Folland Gnat T.1 XM704

:ooh:

Love the 'low vis' Lightning scheme there...hard to spot in the clouds.

CS, thanks for sharing.

I loved the image of the rocket launch from the F-15 cockpit.

That Gnat looks too delicate to be hardly capable of bending the grass. Nice shots. But the bloke in his flat cap and chippie's coat hasn't got a day-glo bib. :eek:

Although he does seem to have an arm band.

It does look like they could lift it onto their shoulders and double off the airfield though :)

Accident damaged Gnat image
 

Common lads, please stop 'lifting' other peoples' material and claiming it as your own. I took the photograph of the Gnat plus several others of the stricken aircraft and am willing to let others use them for publication as long as they are accredited properly. I would expect PPrune to have rules about this!


It makes me wonder if the two excellent shots of the Lightning and Meteor formations are the copyright of Coffmanstarter?

Nutty ... #3 ... I see you've been out playing with your new Aviation Tin Snips already :p

Ok, hands up all those who thought it would be pictures of a certain blonde actress in her frillies.....................

Wander00 :=:=:=:=

http://georgesjournal.files.wordpres...of_britain.jpg
"Did someone say Lightnings?"

The No2 in the Meteor shot is preserved at Cosford.

I too thought it would be pretty young fillies, obviously I haven't reach that stage in my life Coff has :p

There is a connection between 1 and 12 (well painted by the way, sir, son of the father). Those red, chequered fins remind me of the playing cards in Lewis Carroll's 'Alice in Wonderland' (oh, alright, 'Alice's Adventures in the RAF, and What She Found There'), with the Queen of Hearts crying, "off with their heads!" Gentlemen of a certain age have been known to lose their heads to the Queen of Hearts in 12 and similar ladies, have they not?

Not Coffman, but the Aeroplane Twitter feed which seems to be using all sorts of images that aren't their - I noticed one of 'Fred Martin's' on there (Fred being the pseudonym of a well known aviation journalist/photographer) and another of Adrian Blach's

I believe it's called 'liney porn', Nutty.

I have always been slightly irritated by the claims of credit and copyright by individuals for photographs which were only taken with the contribution of several or many other people. For instance, the 56 Sqn Lightning photograph required the cooperation of each pilot in the formation and the efforts of the groundcrew to prepare the aircraft and other essential aircraft operational support functions to be undertaken. Why is credit not given to them too.

I understand that the Gnat mishap photograph may not fall precisely into that category, but I expect that, for it to have been taken so close to the aircraft, the photographer was paid to be there to record the events for the subsequent inquiry. In which case, the copyright should lie with the crown.

Ray if you note Coff put

Image Credits : Aeroplane Icons

I believe if you take images of military stuff while serving the copyright is actually MOD

Coff, thanks, my last meatbox flight was in 744 - 1hr 40.

Nutty, you may be correct but has it ever been enforced or indeed is it enforceable?

I was once put on an emergency deployment roster. Handbrake House demanded I hand over my passport, it was the rules. I declined on the grounds that I had paid for it and they could do the proverbial.

They made an exception on the grounds that I was an officer.

Good evening Ray ...

I assume you are the Ray Deacon of CFS and one of the four Authors of the book 'Little Rissington : The Central Flying School 1946 - 76'.

When I post pictures I always endeavour to correctly credit images (as best as I'm able to do ... which I did in this instance) as the majority of PPRuNe Members do. The three example images I posted to introduce this thread were, as stated, sourced from the source I declared (which I have absolutely no connection with). There was no further information to indicate who owned or took the original pictures, the Gnat image included, other than 'Aeroplane Icons'

I apologise if I have caused you any personal upset and will, if you wish, gladly remove the Gnat image from this post.

Kind regards ...

Coff.

PS. Above message also sent by PM to Ray ... with a PM to the mods.

I will also add that your Post, Ray, at 9 Timed 16:18 wasn't visible to me when I posted at 10 16:40 ... otherwise I would have replied earlier :ok:

PN ... May I ask where your last flight was ... a quick look-up suggests that particular Meatbox had a bit of time down here in the South East ... Biggin, Thorney and West Malling ?

Well done Coff, I'm with you on this copyright stuff. You always take trouble to acknowledge the source. Most of what you do just signposts things that are available to us all for free in t'intaweb. Nutty is correct. I recall a DCI/DCN on the topic not too many years ago. saying that all photos taken by project officers in connection with official business needed to be recorded with DTG and serial numbers. As PN says I don't recall this ever being done. In the wet film era it was always the camp photog who was called in to undertake technical photography. In the area I worked one never took your own camera anywhere near the workplace. Many of us risked it in the digital era. One of my guys was a dab hand with a camera. some of his shots which were classified have been used on company web sites without acknowledging the cameraman or the MoD. For what it is worth I think the Gnat photo would have been Crown Copyright when it was shot. Just like the rather fantastic shots of the Frightning. Some rather fantastic shots appearing on the 130 thread. Well done Coff. If you do end up in jail some of us will send you a hacksaw blade in the cake.

Coff, 744, Flt Lt Ball, 1 Aug 1963 Stradishall Ex J9, All aids navex.

Regarding Crown Copyright, for previously published work the limit is 50 years.

Cheers PN ...

I knew quite a few ex 500 Squadron Meteor guys who operated out of West Malling in the 50's ... clearly no tie up :ok:

Ball was unusual, quite young, he may have been National Service.

We also had a Flt Lt Murkowski. I did the low level navel with him. He stressed that we were NOT permitted to do aeros in the Meteor as we looped and rolled over Suffolk. Ball OTOH made no such statement. Before we recovered he asked me where Stradishall was. Easy, down on the left. There were five airfields down there.

It is wise to get a couple of things clear here. It is nigh impossible for accreditation to made on every photograph that appears on PPRuNe and for that reason the hundreds x ? that have and do appear on these pages over the last 16/17 years cannot, except for the odd few, be properly identified so we mods/PPRuNe take the view that it is a normal function of the site to publish what is put here. Judgement is then made on each case.

However, it is a particular trait of Coff to credit the pics when it is possible. He always does that. And good for him. But if he has a picture to show is he expected to go hither and thither trying to find out who took the picture? Of course not.

If Ray Deacon took that picture of the Gnat, which I have seen before - in other mags and aviation sites. To berate someone for it is hardly fair. What he should have done was to make the photo copyright by showing it on the picture. Only then can anyone know it is copyright. Countless magazines and other aviation sources publish pictures they cannot identify.

While everyone knows their place in the scheme of things on PPRuNe it is workable. As always if someone can claim a picture is copyright they would have to prove it. PPRuNe takes the stance on copyright that it should not be infringed if an image is copyright identified. In other words there is no way that a picture will be prevented from being shown if it is simply not known who it belongs to. There are millions of pictures all over the world that are copyright and millions that are not but if the copyright owner does not protect his 'work' or snaps then he has only himself to blame.

And we should not forget that there are many who 'use' the pages of this site to display or try to sell their wares in one form or another. In that regard we try to take a personal view on what is acceptable and what isn't.

^^^
Well said Pop. :D

It'd be the end of the Caption Comp thread if otherwise! ;)

Well with your entries it often nearly is... :E

Indeed, Nutty, and well said. Coff did not claim the pictures as his own, but rather gave credit to the source. If they claimed ownership of the the images, the fault lies there. Ray, once our images get out in the etherweb, we lose control of them. There are a lot of folk out "there" that may claim your pictures, but Coff isn't one of them. But I do love your photo, so thank you.

Edit to add, well spoken everyone else on the copyright issue. I was replying to posts on the previous page. But I would add to Ray that no one here would ever wish to detract from your photos. Credit to you.

Yep, the site is very good re copyright, and yes the image copyright DOES belong to the Photographer / Owner, though as said it can be a hard job proving it is yours. I know because we fell found of it several years ago when one of my images was lifted off here and appeared in a well known newspaper. That was sorted amicably by all parties and the site info was rewritten to clarify the point.

The problem with the net is it can be a minefield and you have to be careful where posting, some of the well known sites that host pictures in their terms state you in effect waive your copyright rights to them, when you sign up in the blurb. So be aware of that too. A lot of sites do post pictures where original copyright cannot be found, but add a proviso that if any belong to you, contact them and they will remove them if requested.

But when as in this image Coff has put credits, it's not Coff one should be complaining to, but the site that hosted it, and if it is Aeroplane Magazines, then that's Key Publications.

I remember one old Lightning pilot, by then a QFI in something slower, telling me:

"We aren't allowed to do night aeros...here's my sequence!"

p.s. Turn off mode C. :E

Be interesting to know in what capacity Ray was acting when taking the Gnat photo. Being on MOD property he may very well find himself on the wrong side of the law if someone were to be really anal. And claiming copyright would constitute proof of an illegal act.

What is that fugly looking thing with the orange snout?

That, sir, is the Armstrong Whitworth Meteor NF(T) Mk 14.

An all weather interceptor, derived from an earlier fighter, but latterly used in the training role for navigator training - hence the day glo markings.

Almost as ugly as the Lockheed F-94C Starfire!

Night aeros were not unknown in the Canberra T4 either..........

Likewise night aeros in a Chipmunk were not unknown :hmm: