New RAAF Training Aircraft
 

Looking for credible intel on direction of Air 5428, the RAAF tender for a PC-9 replacement.

Any hot rumours? Anyone?

Can they really need changing?

Yes - strange as it may seem, after 20+ years (22 for youngest RAAF example, 27 for oldest RAAF example) the airframes are getting a bit fatigued - by the time their replacements arrive (in another 5+ years), they will be close to worn out.

Since the actual timeframe for replacement, even with the process starting now, is more like 10 years before the first deliveries, then we are looking at a fleet average of ~35 years at replacement.

Sure, you could spend over 25% of the cost of a new aircraft for a complete refurbishment of the airframe to get a significant extension of the useful life - for an aircraft that reflects pre-1984* design, maintenance, and operational considerations - unless you spend even more to install more modern avionics etc.


* first flight of first PC-9 built

Nov 24, 1987 was first delivery! Holy crap, I'd have never thought they were that old.

Anyway, never mind the training, what's a good platform for the Roulettes? :ok:

Gnats? F-104s? Hunters? Vulcans? MiG-21s? Ex-RNZAF MB339s? :}

Anything but PC-9s :zzz:

I know .. I know ... (and I'm sure the CDF would sign off) Ex-RNZAF Ex-RAN A-4s.

only conjecture
 

PC21 or T6 would seem to the most viable options

In our 'neighbourhood', NZ have recently acquired the T6. RSAF had SIAI-Marchetti S.211 and now have PC21 for basic training.

All jet was tried with the Macchi and found wanting.

I seem to remember reading (but can't relocate) that a decision is expected in early 2015


As for what the Roulettes will have - expect it will be whatever 2FTS use.

Agree 'noisy' would be more attractive to the uninitiated but having seen Roulettes and Hawk at ADFA a few weeks back, the Hawk would disappear for long enough to think it had finished. Meanwhile, solo PC9 managed loop (seemingly) directly over the parade ground.

Can't argue the relative merit of the PC-9 as an aerobatic platform, but you can't knock the skills of the pilots! Always enjoy the Roulettes. :ok:

Hawks would be nice....[/wishful thinking]

You'd think 'Team 21' (Lockheed-Martin/Hawker/Pilatus) and the PC-21 would be the best placed submission at this stage. BAE/Ratheon and the T-6 would be 'change for changes sake' imo.

You are right - it is between PC-21 and T-6.


Despite the PC-21 already being based at Pearce with the RSAF (that is the Sings), I think the T-6 will get it. But I do not have enough facts to lay down why it is "better".

Budget or capability? Choose one. Hopefully not the former.

T-6 has a secondary armed role making it ideal for the FAC replacement at 4 Sqn in addition to the other uses. PC21 does not do this unless the DMO spend five times the value modifying it!!!:rolleyes:

Controversial point here, but is FAC ever really a viable role in this day and age? All good fun in training, but I couldn't see us ever deploying PC-9s or their replacement to be marking targets over any kind of battlefield these days.

PC 21 has hardpoints
 

according to Wikipedia ...

Pilatus PC-21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Armament:
Hardpoints: Provisions provided for 4× under-wing and 1× centerline external store stations, capable of mounting up to 1,150 kg (2,540 lb) of payload of air-to-ground weapons to operate in the Counter-insurgency role.

Air Forces Monthly ran a flight-test report on the PC-21 recently that mentioned it could carry weapons, but I think it was envisioned that these would be used in a COIN role, not a FAC one.

I still can't get my head around the thought that the PC-9 (and the Tucano for that matter) are now getting old enough to need replacing.

I feel old.:sad:

AOTW, probably not as FACs, but 4 SQN provides a very useful and cost effective input into JTAC training, doesn't it?

AT-802U prob be better. Pull the wings off and stuff it into a C130 or C-27J and send it anywhere around the world in a few hours.

2 seat, 15 hard points, lots of cameras, 10 hours endurance, .50 cal. GAU-19/A three-barrel Gatling guns, dual M260 7-tube rocket launchers, and 500 lb. Mk-82 bombs, hellfire etc.

http://www.802u.com/sites/default/fi...hure_07_10.pdf

One would hope the training platform selected is on the basis of its suitability as a training platform rather than as a FAC platform, surely. Still stranger things have happened.

Back to the topic. I've heard the RFP ran to about 1000 pages and multiple proposals required. All sounds very hard for an arguably simple decision. (when compared with F-111 replacement say.)

I think the Canadians fly the T-6, as do the USAF and now the USN.

I got to fly it over ten years ago.
It's a pretty good training aircraft.
I didn't get to fly the B version the Navy has gotten for its training wings.
I am not sure if that version might be more of what RAAF is looking for.

Certainly, the Pc21 seems to be the better aircraft, but the T6 is cheaper. There may be other factors in play also, like the 'on base' or 'off base' solution which might have a bearing on which type gets the nod. It seems the rich Middle Eastern countries (Qatar, UAE, Saudi) gave gone with the PC21 and the Western countries (US, Canada, Mexico, Nz) have gone with the Texan. I really have no idea which system will be adopted, but it has to be better than the antiquated system we have now. Our trainers have lagged well behind the operational types.