It was in the 50s when the V-Force moved in. I'm guessing around 55?

Ah, just found it the RAF website. 1956.

Thanks Courtney Mil, I suspect that the planning process may have been a tad simpler back then.

Waddington's current runways were put down between 1953 (when the airfield closed) and 1955. The airfield then received two Canberra Squadrons (21 & 27) - the Ops block and other supporting infrastructure went in at the same time as the runway was lengthened. The Vulcan OCU, 230, arrived at Waddington in May 1955 with the first Vulcan landing for contractor's trials work in March 1956. 230 OCU received its first Vulcans proper in January 1957 with 83 Sqn standing up in May 57. The final Canberra Sqn disbanded in June 57.

At Scampton the unmoved road would have crossed the extended runway, so some movement was inevitable

http://i62.tinypic.com/2e35njq.jpg

Thread drift

Reminds me of a story from Cosford, where one end of the runway is near the main Wolverhampton - Shrewsbury train line. Bit of difference though, in that case the train line is on top of a earth bank which is what, 30 feet tall?

Back in the 80's someone was delivering a Vulcan for the museum, and we were out to watch it land. It went round a couple of times, and the story was that the pilot said he would take one last shot to which ATC responded, "You'll need to get a move on, the next train is due in 10 minutes...."

I've driven past Waddo, and Coningsby, and in my opinion anyone who decides to hang around there and then complain about the low flying aircraft are due everything they get. :ugh: It's like that airport where the undershoot is on the beach, people hang off the perimeter fence for a laugh as civvy airliners rev up for take off.

I really wonder about the future of the human race....

If you look at the photograph above, you will see the origins of the Scampton station badge!


http://www.terrane.co.uk/prodimg/MG1647_1_Large.jpg

A quick look on Google Maps shows why the A15 was rerouted around Scampton as it would have gone clean through the runway but I wonder if a similar change was considered at the time at Waddo given the close proximity of the end of the new runway to the A15 (which even in 1950's must still have been quite busy) and the new large aircraft being located there.

This German pilot as the F16 driver beaten...
 

Even managed to hit the fence but by pure luck not the idiotic sunbather.

Lucky escape: Plane narrowly misses German sunbather

Surely the re-routing of Ermine Street between Lindum and Eboracum goes back earlier than that?

It seems that a couple of centurions were arguing about the best route; should the road follow the line of what later became the B1398 along the bottom of the Lincoln Edge, or should Ermine Street be improved. The discussions went on for some time; one centurion was worried about the danger of ambush from the low life who lived beneath the edge causing him to require more legions and cohorts every time he went north to duff up the Picts, whereas the other was more concerned at the exposed nature of the top of the Edge along Ermine Street.

This ruckus attracted the attention of Caesar....

"Why do you argue so, centurions?"
"Err, Hail Caesar. It is this road here in the land of the Britons"
"These things having been said however, notwithstanding the having been stated arguments, bloody sort it, will you!"
"My Lord, we are unable to agree"
"Best you do - or it's off to gladiator school for the pair of you!"
"Verily have we tried, O Caesar, but have failed to agree"
"Right. Hand me that ruler and thy strigil, in order that I can decide! And thy map of parchment"
"By your command, Sire..."

"Good", mumbled Caesar. "Right from here, the college which I shall name Bishop Grottestrix and fill with nubile young wenches, in order my legionnaires to please, to here - the port of Winteringham by the river. It shall follow this route; hear ye buggers that this shall be my command!"

Placing the ruler between the two points, he dragged the strigil across the parchment. But, in common with later generations of student pilots, he caught his thumb with the strigil, causing it to jump off the ruler and the route to have a bend in it....

Now, parchment being expensive and time being short, rather than send for a new map, he peered at the result and asked one of the centurions for the name of the nearest settlement to the diversion. "Sire, 'tis known in those parts as Scampton - inhabited by a strange tribe who worship the god Vulcan", he replied.

"Well, so be it. The barbarians will be avoided, in order for the legions to march quickly to defeat the Picts. Now, build the road as I command, or become lion fodder"

"As Caesar commands, so shall it be", chorused the centurions.

Which is why there's now a bend in the A15 at Scampton!

And BEagle should know...!

Assuming that the military regulations try to emulate the CAA (CAP 168, derived from ICAO Annex 14, Volume I), the origin of the approach surface (1:50 slope) should be 60 metres before the threshold, and for a precision instument runway (ILS) be 150 metres either side of the runway centreline. Given that the road represents an obstacle 4.8 metres high, the road should be 240 metres from the start of the approach surface (and 300 from the threshold). So in practice the threshold should be displaced by 300 metres to provide the required clearance over the road.

Same applies to the take-off climb surface, except that it is only 90 metres either side of the centreline. To provide the clearance, a reduction of declared distances (of 300 metres)would be required. In any event the road would be repesented on the Type A chart as a 4.8m obstacle and taken into account during take-off performance planning.

The fence is also an obstacle.

Rail lines are considered a slightly taller obstacle to cater for any overhead power lines.

Mister B

From the Highway Code (adjacent to a depiction of the lights most commonly used at railway crossings):



Flashing red lights


Alternately flashing red lights mean YOU MUST STOP
At level crossings, lifting bridges, airfields, fire stations, etc.

That takes care of traffic, and it would be reasonable to assume this also applies to pedestrians.

Mister B

In English law I don't think its reasonable to assume anything. I think that a pedestrian passing a red light at traffic crossing then gets into Rail Act and by-laws etc and the railway is essentially private land, not sure that same regulations are in place for the public highway unless a local by- law is enacted.

This applies to pedestrians at level crossings:


34

Railway level crossings. You MUST NOT cross or pass a stop line when the red lights show, (including a red pedestrian figure). Also do not cross if an alarm is sounding or the barriers are being lowered.The tone of the alarm may change if another train is approaching. If there are no lights, alarms or barriers, stop, look both ways and listen before crossing. A tactile surface comprising rounded bars running across the direction of pedestrian travel may be installed on the footpath approaching a level crossing to warn visually impaired people of its presence. The tactile surface should extend across the full width of the footway and should be located at an appropriate distance from the barrier or projected line of the barrier.
Law TSRGD, reg 52



So as the HC states that the flashing reds also apply to airfields, etc, it would seem logical to apply the same status as described above (at least the first sentence).

Mister B

The quoting of railway crossing bylaws must be a new low for PPRuNE.

"Strigil" :confused:

"Stylus" ?

HTB - that road surface+4.5m/+4.8m rule applies to an open road to take account of traffic using the road. Waddo stops it's traffic so that +4.5/+4.8m rule doesnt apply and they can use the road height as it's reference.

The easiest way to visualise the approach surface is to look at the approach lights. The approach lights will usually be set to 'sit' on the bottom of the approach surface. You can see from that video that the spectators are standing and are taller than the approach lights - thus they are infringing the approach surface.


With Railway crossings there are Byelaws of Tresspass on Railway premises which they can use but with roads the offences relate to passing the red light. If the pedestrians are already past the red lights when they start flashing then they don't commit an offence.

However, they are technically committing offences of endangering aircraft safety by infringing the approach surface meaning that Police can use force (i.e. move them on) to prevent the offence.

Alternatively, as they are on the highway (legally defined as including verges and footpaths) they are required to obey the directions of a constable to proceed in a particular direction.

"And Beagle should know,"
Yes, because he was there, on his second tour, no less.....:E

No need for a displaced threshold, IMC traffic half a dot low on a 2.5 degree G/S crosses the road at 70 feet AGL. Likewise, visual traffic if aiming to touchdown on the numbers crosses the road above 20 feet AGL on a 2.5 degree approach. So, why not have a crossing restriction of 20 feet AGL for the crossing the A15? ;)

OAP

His verbis dictis autem, the point of the strigil being that it was the nearest instrument to hand - and was probably still covered in centurion sweat, hence was slippery!

After a hard day judging gerundive attraction, Caesar was in no mood to wait for the squabbling centurions to find the correct tool!

I thought it was most enterprising of the Romans to anticipate the locations of the many airfields from Cambridgeshire to North Lincolnshire then build a road that would connect them all.

OAP

As HTB says, the approach needs to be obstacle free to 1in50, 2% or 1.15 degrees. So your calculations don't really count. The Secretary of State underwrites the obstacle minima for a Government Aerodrome and it is subtly different to what HTB describes in that the MAA's Manual of Aerodrome Design and Safeguarding needs just 4.5m of clearance above the crown of the road (yes, the fence is lower). The 60m from the threshold is the same though in order to start the 1.15degree calculation.

LJ

Nothing surprises me, remember these turkeys topping up their tans... :E

Btw, if you haven't seen it, this was at Old Warden airshow on the 29th, he never made it over the fence / gate

Looks to me like he wasn't trying to get it over the fence, I think he drifted into it.

Apparently there was a bit of a crosswind, rotaries are either on or off, they do not have throttles per se. The aircraft a replica apparently, hopefully it will be repaired soon :)

Yes Leon, of course the obstacle criteria are met by the obstacles or it would not be licensed/approved. My rough figures are just to illustrate that the airfield operator could stipulate a local restriction that would cure the "issue" without impinging upon any aircraft operations. Just my opinion:ok:

OAP

Burnie

Thanks for embellishing my understanding of obstacle limitation surfaces. You will see that I made an assumption - that MoD try to apply the CAP168/ICAO criteria - in full knowledge that this seldom happens in reality; perhaps I should have typed more slowly to indicate that I was describing a hypothetical scenario. Hence my use of the modal verb "should" rather than "shall" (in ICAO meaning "ought" and must" - except that the preamble to Annex 14 urges Member states to apply the former - used in Recommended Practices with the same weight as the latter, used in Standards - SARPS).

You will also have picked up that the runway strip - 300 metres wide and 60 meteres before the threshold - provides the origin of both the approach surface and the transitional surface (the latter's origin at the longitudinal extent of the strip, it is a 1:7 slope).

I haven't been to Waddington for some time (since I left 101 sqn in 1975 to move up the road to Scampton), but I do recall that the the A15 was/is close to runway 20 threshold and the adjacent taxiway; in fact so close as to infringe the runway strip, including a good portion to the south of the southern set of traffic lights (and the aerodrome boundary fence).

Just as well that the military OLS do not fully embrace the civil criteria (Northolt is an even more striking example of where the criteria are not met). I'm sure that more differences would be revealed if one were to make a more detailed inspection of the infrastructure. I base this last satement on 12 years employment with the CAA as an aerodrome inspector, which included the transition of Farnborough, Finningley and St Mawgan from military to civil licensing criteria and an MoD requested inspection/audit of Northolt in December 2008.

Mister B

Happy to expand and clarify any technical questions, cognizant (and that's the first spelling option in the OED) that the ambition of MoD to apply civil criteria is often constrained by, financial limits, topography, operational needs, etc.

Meanwhile, wait for the spate of accidents on the roundabout at the junction of the A15 and the new eastern bypass when it is built - it cannot be far away from the threshold and aircraft landing will be a major distraction for drivers approaching it....Waddington will undoubtedly get the blame.

Old age onset:

I forgot to mention that the threshold elevation can play a significant part in determining if an object close to the approach surface is treated as an obstacle; i.e. if the threshhold is lower than the ground on which the object stands, then the object's elevation increases by the difference between threshold and ground height (and vice versa).

Likewise for potential obstacles outside the runway strip that could infringe the transitional surface.

Mister B

Do you remember when the Lincoln-Newark bypass was opened and people kept driving into the roundabout at Swinderby? The commonest excuse was 'I wasn't expecting there would be a roundabout.' The mind boggles.

Daft plods eh? Seems to me that if people don't realise that standing under the path of rapidly descending lumps of metal isn't a good idea then they could probably do with being removed from the gene pool.
As has been said above the legal options for moving pedestrians from where they wish to be are very, very limited.

From the ANO - CAP393; a tenuous reference to the Darwinian spectators under the flight path:


Air Navigation: The Order and the Regulations

Published for the use of those concerned with air navigation,but not to be treated as authoritative (see Foreword)


FOREWORD

1 Status

1.1 This work sets out the provisions of the Air Navigation Order as amended together with Regulations made under the Order. These Regulations are The Rules of the Air Regulations,The Air Navigation (General) Regulations, the Air Navigation (Cosmic Radiation)(Keeping of Records) Regulations, the Air Navigation (Dangerous Goods) Regulations and a number of permanent Air Navigation (Restriction of Flying) Regulations. It also contains the provisions of the Civil Aviation Authority Regulations. As with the Air Navigation Order itself, the Regulations are in their currently amended form.

1.2 It has been prepared for those concerned with day to day matters relating to Air Navigation who require an up to date version of the Orders and the Regulations mentioned above. It is edited by the Legal Adviser’s Department of the Civil Aviation Authority. Courts of Law will however refer only to the Queen’s Printer’s Edition of Statutory Instruments.


PART 19 Prohibited Behaviour

Endangering safety of an aircraft

137 A person must not recklessly or negligently act in a manner likely to endanger an aircraft, or any person in an aircraft.

Endangering safety of any person orproperty

138 A person must not recklessly or negligently cause or permit an aircraft to endanger any person or property.


So it works both ways...

Mister B

Legislation is all very well HTB but I'd like to see anyone being prosecuted for simply being on a public highway which happens to be at the end of a runway.
I suspect that any court (not that it'd get that far) would say that aircrew could (should) foresee and plan for that situation.

TG

Quite; stupidity is not a crime. I've not seen those parts of the ANO being used (successfully) during 12 years of aerodrome safety regulation (although some aerodromes do have warning/threatening signs at vulnerable points, such as footpaths that cross a runway, quoting the relevant reference and large fines for transgression).

I suppose you could argue that hanging from the boundary fence could constitute trespass - better ask a lawyer (and don't use reheat on the go around...:E).

Mister B

Fence down
 

a few years ago -Did not some visiting aircraft ? (french) demolish the fence?

"a few years ago -Did not some visiting aircraft ? (french) demolish the fence?"


I have unsuccessfully tried to find the photograph of a 50 Sqn Vulcan K2 tanker that could not retract its hose and dragged it through the fence at Waddington in the early 1980s. A Nimrod AEW also dragged its trailing radio aerial through the fence a few years later. The former was expected and the traffic lights set - I understand that the indications in the Nimrod were incorrect and the crew did not know that they had 150' of wire trailing behind them. The traffic lights may not have been set to red on this occasion.

Slight correction to my last:

The ANO Rule would most likely have been used to collar the Darwinian candidates who fired green lasers at police helicopters (and other sundry aircraft), but not directly conected to aerodromes.

Wensly

Was there not an exuberant co-pilot many years ago who was selected to carry out a brake test on a Vulcan. Adopting the callsign "Roadrunner", I recall that's just what he did - run onto the road while carrying out some high speed runs (proving that either the brakes were faulty, or his decsiion-making was).

Mister B

Fox3kill

Slight point of order, if I may...

The MAA regs (note, they are not guidelines) at RA2335 state "If it is predicted that the general public will gather, as aviation enthusiasts, in off-site viewing areas, the EO will include such gatherings in his risk assessment." So you do have to consider areas over which you have no control and is outside of your event area (I also know this having been a Display Director myself :ok:). Therefore, I would expect the Waddington Airshow Risk Assessment to have suitable mitigations for expected gatherings like this bunch of loons.

LJ