Well, no poo Poirot; exactly. Do you want to explain that to the LAA?

What a remarkably good point; but you need a rather large number of hulls in the water to sweep that area. Remind me, would any one of 19 already committed RN DD/FFs be ready at the drop of a hat?

Correct me if I'm wrong but, in my limited fish head experience, success is more likely if you identify a likely contact from the air to be investigated by a ship than by doing it just with a ship.

The point I was forlornly trying to make is that we don't now have the capability irrespective of who's bloody SAR area it is.

GBZ

My apologize.

Understand where you are coming from.

Sky News in the UK is reporting that an RAF C-130 is currently en-route to help with the search.

Still can't understand how the container ship did not stay with that hull until suitable SAR boat on scene. :oh:

OAP

Sadly the nearest ship was probably a weeks sail away. Keeping a very large merchantman running racetracks around a tiny hull which it had no power to support is fairly difficult. Thats without considering the reality that the ships owners would have a tight schedule to keep to, and would want her back on track as quickly as possible.

I don't doubt had they seen signs of life then they'd have tried something to help people, but at this point sitting around for a week in bad weather just to keep track of the hull was probably unrealistic - particularly as the crew are (in my personal opinion) very likely to have been long dead.

Spin it.
 

Someone here is saying Sky News are sending an RAF Hercules to aid the search. Would that not be a lash up as a type of A/C to send? It stinks.
The RAF should spin this story as hard as they dare, showing what the scrapping of Nimrod has resulted in.
Politicians do, military need to as well.
This is all turning out to be a very sad saga in many ways.

Sky news rerported a RAF Hercules had taken off to "help" in the search but showed video of a C17 landing!

they are all just 'planes' to 95% of journos - lucky they used stock image of an RAF C17 (assuming it was an RAF one...)?

I wish the Herc guys & gals the greatest success in their search.

I still believe that the Mk 4 Nimrod would have been a more useful, dedicated search platform. I'm sure this time even the Old Fat One won't disagree.:rolleyes:

I agree - good luck to the herc guys and gals. Sad situation but I expect Carlos in the Azores will be glad of the chance to host some RAF once again. I'm guessing the C130 will be staging from there each day?

Was there really NO suitable surface asset (inc Naval?) within say, 2 days sailing? If not, is the provision of SAR in the Atlantic below par for the quantity of air and sea traffic considering that the support of passing freight ships was counted on in plans for rescue in that area. How many merchant vessels are unable to deploy and recover a rescue boat at sea? How do they manage "man overboard"?

OAP

I think that you will find that most merchant vessels struggle to recover someone from the water because of a very high freeboard. They are not generally equiped to launch a boat and recover it. If someone goes overboard in my area, they always ask for assistance for recovery.
Look at most vessels these days and they are equipped with lifeboats on slides, not much chance of getting that back on board easily; or liferafts.

Heads down, look out for the flak.

There is usually an RN Frigate on a drug running interception patrol in the Caribbean. Surely, that could be diverted to help in the search also!

Under SOLAS requirements, large cargo ships are not only required to have enough lifeboats or liferafts for all the passengers and crew, but they must also have a rescue boat which meets particular launching and recovery requirements. The rescue boat requirement can be met by a suitably equipped lifeboat provided it can be recovered, but is typically met by something like a rigid inflatable.

yea same here, wasn't there a Large ship in the current MH370 search which hung around for a while off Western Australia until relieved.

The Herc a lash up search aircraft?
Why do you think the J model was delivered with a large square window in the para doors and an observers seat mounted on those doors.
Mk1 eyeball SAR was designed into the Herc 4/5 at the outset.

RFA Wave Knight returned to the UK on 25 April after a 15-month Atlantic Patrol Task (North) deployment in the Caribbean having been joined by HMS Lancaster May to Dec 2013 straddling the hurricane season.

Owing to...

• Refits and other maintenance periods
• Post-deployment recovery time (last year was particularly busy)
• Exercises and training commitments (JOINT WARRIOR, PERISHER courses, PWO firings, etc.)
• D-Day 70 commemorations and similar
• RFTG (Response Force Task Group) preps for its COUGAR 14 deployment
• FRE (Fleet Ready Escort) rqmts
• Current blue water deployments in the South Atlantic, Persian Gulf, Gulf of Aden (EU NAVFOR's ATALANTA), patrols off Somalia, etc.

...I suspect none of the RN's 19 DD/FF has been available to sail for the western Atlantic in the interim.

VX275 _ I think that the point made was that in addition to the Mk1 eyeball a SAR aircraft would also have a surface search radar, FLIR, and other search aids.

The C-130J that the USCG uses is a very different bird to the RAF's C4/C5 which is pretty basic as a SAR platform. The only plus it has is the ability to receive fuel in flight which is something I am not sure if the USCG Hercs can manage.

Still, it is better than nothing and the more Mk 1 eyeballs on task the better. Maybe our ones will carry some SBS types and a Zodiac/Gemini able to be dropped into the sea and to search the hull and picked up by a surface ship (or even a submarine!) later?

MB

Good info, just shows the paucity of capability IMO.:sad:

OAP

Its a lash up if the crew are not trained and experienced in SAR ops. Searching vaste expanses of water requires trained observers as well as the flight deck. How much experience do the crew have at dropping survival equipment to a floating target? I've done it for real in high seas and it is not easy and takes alot of dedicated practice (D807).

Good luck to the C-130 crew, but again this exposes the UK's capability gap since the demise of the Nimrod MR2/MRA4.