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YS, I believe Norma has it right. Smiler was talking cross section.
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Originally Posted by Stuffy
(Post 8312429)
Airbus have done nothing except a paper exercise.
Lockheed have done nothing except a paper exercise. Boeing have produced an MPA which is already in service. Why the other manufacturers have done nothing, well only they can answer that?. Err, kind of simple answer to that - Boeing developed theirs because the US Government paid them to. Wiki isn't the most reliable source (!) but in this case it's fairly on the ball Boeing P-8 Poseidon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia |
Good luck trying to explain something "simple" to Stuffy...
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Betty S wrote:-
"Harry. I see your point. But can we really afford to compromise on this?! Haven't we compromised too much already?!" That's water under the bridge - right now we don't even have a patrol capacity - any discussion of going back to full on 1990's capability will cause hysterics at No.10 and the Treasury We don't have enough cash to pay for a lot of things for the next 10 years at least I'd love to see maybe 4 P-8's ordered but I suspect we'll settle on maybe 8 simple patrol aircraft -. If the Scots go you can forget those as well :uhoh: |
HH, why 4 P8s. One in maintenance would leave 3 for ops, trg etc. Hardly worth the effort.
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Maybe we should 'manage our expectations' (business bullphrase for 'cut our cloth to suits our circumstances')?
How about matching our commonwealth cousins New Zealand? Not sure of their latest P3-K numbers but they seem to be able to patrol a vast amount of water with them? To those who might say - "but they are not covering all the other tasks that MR2 did", see my para 1...:) |
Originally Posted by Sandy Parts
(Post 8325365)
Maybe we should 'manage our expectations' (business bullphrase for 'cut our cloth to suits our circumstances')?
Circumstance - political ambition to remain a great global player Cloth - broad loom to make large enough suit. Cicumstance - broke Cloth - copy the emperor for Hans Christian Anderson |
Cloth - copy the emperor for Hans Christian Anderson Sorry! SORRY!! I'll get my coat; TAXI! :O |
"why 4 P8s. One in maintenance would leave 3 for ops, trg etc. Hardly worth the effort."
Still - we'd have one active every day We don't need to patrol the whole of the UKCS 24/7 just like a copper on the beat - turn up every so often and it introduces another variable for the bad guys |
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HH,
So one Typhoon sortie a day in the UK FIR - AD sorted One E3D sortie a month - AEW sorted. One Voyager mission a week - AT sorted Etc etc. Defence budget sorted! |
I didn't say I thought it was perfect - I just think it's better than nothing at all - which is where we are now
the easiest way to ensure we never get any patrol aircraft ever again is to ask for a load of hi-spec aircraft right now. The important thing is to keep the capacity in being - you never know there might be more money in the future but once it's gone for a decade I suspect you'll never convince the Treasury or the politicains that we really need to re-instate it again PS just how many Typhoon sorties ARE there on an average day???? 120 aircraft, average pilot gets 18-19 hours a month with luck ... not a lot I suspect |
Disagree. Going for a half-baked solution will only cost more in the long run.
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do you really think anyone is going to fund a fully baked solution in the next 10 years?
Osborne is still looking for CUTS for heaven sakes And I can't see the Labour or LibDems spending on this capability either I know we HAD a really good MPA capability but we now have none - we have to move on and take what we can get I'm afraid. We used to have 1000 bomber force but that has gone as well..................... |
Couldn't agree more with you Harry.
The problem is and I understand why, people are allowing emotion to cloud their judgement, just because we used to have a world leading mpa capability and just because people believe vehemently that we need one again asap does in no way reflect the realistic likelihood of it happening. By all means plead your case, bang the drum hard, whilst at the same time allowing a modicum of realism to prevail. I would be flabbergasted if the uk or what's left of it (post referendum) gets back into the high end mpa game. |
Wow!! That that was patronising!!
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WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Boeing Co (BA.N) has been awarded a contract valued at $2.1 billion to build 16 P-8A Poseidon long-range maritime spy planes for the U.S. Navy, the Pentagon announced on Tuesday. The deal marks the first full-rate production contract for Boeing for the new planes, and follows a decision by Australia last week to buy eight P-8A planes for A$4 billion ($3.6 billion). Y_G |
So can someone explain why the Aussie P-8s are so much more expensive? From the RAAF website: The acquisition of the eight P-8A aircraft will cost approximately $4 billion, including support facilities. |
Whereas the USN P-8 contract is for additional aircraft to enlarge an existing fleet (12 in service as of December last year with 6 of those on deployment to Japan, and brings the total of current orders to 53).
The USN contracts support separately from purchases. Note that this is NOT a new contract, but is actually the USN exercising an option (for more aircraft) in a previously-awarded contract. Boeing Awarded $2.07 Bln Contract By U.S. Navy For P-8 Spy Planes 2/26/2014 4:09 AM ET Boeing co. has been awarded a $2.07 billion modification to a previously awarded firm-fixed-price contract to exercise the options for the procurement of 16 P-8A Multi-mission Maritime Aircraft full rate production Lot I aircraft and 16 Ancillary Mission Equipment kits for the U.S. Navy, the U.S Department of Defense said. The order is expected to be completed in April 2017. The deal reportedly increases the Navy's order to 53 jets as it exercised options as part of a broader agreement that would see the service take up to 117 of the aircraft, a heavily-modified version of its 737-800 passenger plane. |
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