Squadron 'Uncles'
 

I see that the reserve are advertising for Squadron 'Uncles' for Typhoon Squadrons - RAF Reserves - FTRS Vacancies List

I think the Squadron Uncle is a great scheme and I remember the great Furze Lloyd taking this role on during the 90s. If only I lived near Lossie/Leuchars! :{

BTW - for the Loadies, a Squadron 'Uncle' is different to a Squadron 'Auntie' which is an entirely different thing! :E

Any takers?

LJ

Never heard of a Sqn Uncle before.

Looking at the job spec though, sounds more like a Gofer than anything else. :confused:

Typical duties may include assisting the Sqn Executive Officer with Ops and Planning tasks.

Exposure to sqn support functions and reports/returns (such as AFT & CFT compilation, SAPPHIRE, F540 etc).

Three reasons why recruitment may be harder than for some other jobs.

Is that "Uncle" as in the Adj in "Aces high"

airpolice,

Several good reasons not to sign up but it could suit a 55 year old newly retired aircrew bod living locally, that has no idea what to do in life for the next 5 years. On the understanding that FTRS posts run till age 60.

Interesting that new jobs are still being created though in this era of cuts, slash, cuts, burn and more cuts everywhere else.

Each to his own. Full-time holding Officer:uhoh:.

OAP

"Three reasons why recruitment may be harder than for some other jobs."

Agree loss of flying pay might be one, But I completely disagree with the other two. I am a 51 year old FTRS who has eased through his latest fitness test and recently completed CCS (it's not how it used to be by a long shot).

Furze Lloyd - now there was a guy. Did I hear that sadly he had died before his time?

I find this concept of squadron consiglieri quite astonishing.

Is the RAF really so understrength that it cannot meet these requirements from within conventional manning sources?

Would it not be a good idea to seek Dutch ones while they're at it?

Squadron 'Uncle'? Sounds a bit Yewtree to me.....

Only if properly dressed, complete with Dutch cap.

Or an Indian Auntie

In these financially constrained times, maybe what they really need is a ......

Sugar Daddy!

Or perhaps, "Punka Wallah", all waft and no luft. Wouldn't the job fall under the remit of the FOO mentioned elsewhere?

NutLoose,

It used to, certainly there were posts on 3(F) and 11 called OC Mission Support Flight that looked after Ops, Int and Admin (plus visits, bogs and drains, F540, AFT/CFT etc). These were deployable posts and created to replace the old Harrier Sqn "Uncles" (certainly on 3(F) anyway). Not sure if they are binning the OC MSF post and going back to the "Uncle" concept or keeping the OC MSFs and effectively duplicating 90% of the post.

Why P or WSO?
 

Not sure why so restrictive as no flying involved and more of an extra exec level post to do all of the tasks that the old uncle posts did. Half of the jobs they do will prob require more broadened experience than they perhaps envisage.

My guess is so they can be an Auth and Duty Exec, which were the only things OC MSF couldn't do.

Tailchase, it's probably about the fact that the aircrew omnt he squadrons concerned will be Pilots only. I don't see an ex nav mentoring a newbie typhoon driver.

Party Animal, I was thinking that repaying your lump sum might put recent;y retired people off.

Furz Lloyd - 20 Sqn Uncle & my Dad
 

In response to the question from Wanderl00, I am sorry to confirm that my Dad, Furz, passed away in 2010 after a long battle against multiple injuries after a major car accident the year before.

He loved his time as a sqn uncle - he was a great mentor, source of support & mine of information to them, as well as wearing a groove in the counter of the bar.

I stayed one night after being marooned by East Coast trains at Grantham - seeing the affection that the sqn & other mess members had for him was great - his calling card of 'my dear chap' ringing out as we entered the bar.

I miss him so.

Lady Wyatt - I was an former pilot, returned to the RAF as an administrator after 11 years as a civvie (and TA), and was posted to Binbrook. Your Dad was one of the first Lightning pilots I met there, and over a period of more than 2 years was avgreat help and support - one of the loveliest of men. You should be, and I am sure are, very proud of him.

Sorry airpolice, I am unfamiliar with the FTRS set up. Are you saying that if I retired at 55 with my lump sum and pension and then joined back up as FTRS until aged 60, I would have to pay back my entire lump sum? :hmm:

No, that doesn't happen, it's only if you PVR that you would have to pay the EDP back if you wanted to go FTRS immediately.

Lady W,

I, too, knew your Dad over many years. When you wrote the phrase "my dear chap" many fine memories flooded back. Furz was indeed a splendid fellow - you can be justifiably proud of who he was and what he achieved.

I think we all do LW. He is still oft talked about in 92 Squadron circles. A great guy. Best wishes from his old mate Newt

Not only do you have to repay some (most) of your lump, if you join ftrs within a year (or possibly two) but they take into account what "they" are paying you in pension and deduct that from the pay for the new job.

So don't go thinking that you can retire, spend the lump and live off the monthly money, then get a job at the same pay as you were on before, that's not how it works.

AP - I wonder why?

Airpolice

That is a very misleading post!

If you are on AFPS75 you can keep your lump sum whenever you have left.

If you are on AFPS05 you have some tricky sums to work out depending on when you left - try googling "AFPS 05 remployment" and look for an MMP document in PDF.

As for you cannot get a job at the same pay as as before - yes you can! What you can't do is earn more with your salary and pension combined. If you were a Flt Lt and became a Sqn Ldr then you would have all your pension abated, but you would still be paid the FULL Sqn Ldr wage, regardless of what you were paid before.

Lady W, +1 on your old man - he was a top bloke and I will forever have a kind thought for him in my mind. Such a sad loss and I hope he is at the gates with St Peter and welcomes me with a hand shake and "My dear chap!".

LJ

MMP here http://www.raf.mod.uk/community/getm...662EFFE6F3C308

If I have this correct, lets look at the example of someone who retires at 55 on AFPS05 conditions. Let's say their pension is 50% of their final salary.

Give it the necessary month or more, and they rejoin as FTRS. They revert to the salary they were on before. So, compared to staying retired, or getting a second job, they are now working a 40+ hr week for only effectively an extra half the salary they were on before. For example.


Final salary £70,000

Pension £35,000



Option 1 - Retired:

0 hrs worked
£35,000 income
Options for second career, possible part time work, increased family and leisure time, etc

Option 2 - Rejoin as FTRS:

40+ hrs worked
£70,000 income



When you look at things like NI, higher rate tax brackets, etc, going back to work as FTRS probably means you actually only increase your net take home pay by about a third.

I would suggest in this scenario you would have to really love the job to go the FTRS route!

Not good if you have spent the lump and then decide to take up the FTRS job.

you should also be aware of th edifferent "status" of FTRS terms of service: No quarter, no family medical etc. It's not like joining again, it's actually more like working in a different air force, except you still get dicked for sec duties and sdo and guard commander and whatever else comes your way.

Basically, in the previous example;

Retire and have £35,000 a year, then take a £40,000 a year job with Tesco, who will pay you, and keep your pension & lump sum, OR

Pay back a chunk of your lump sum, take up an FTRS post, and they use the pension payment (that you were already getting) to pay you for working.

Once again using the example figures I used in my previous post....

Given that you don't pay NI on a pension, then a pension of £35,000 actually represents the take home pay of a salary of £39,800 (lets call it £40k to make life easy).

Therefore, a 55 year old retiree on a £35,000 pension would only need to find a job paying £30,000 to have the same take home pay as they would if they rejoined as FTRS on £70,000.

This might not be possible, or they might not want to work that hard, but even a part time or low paid job pulling in £15-20k would mean very little drop in life style. Indeed, as I said before, given the upper tax band effect and not paying NI, doing nothing and retiring permanently would result in a drop in take home pay of nearer a third than a half.

In summary, I think it highly unlikely that many 55 year olds will consider rejoining as FTRS. It simply doesn't make sense, there is very little financial incentive.

I did know an ex Wg Cdr and ex Gp Capt who rejoined as FTRS Flt Lts. They were both younger than 55, one considerably so. Here the numbers would be very different, and I'm sure it made financial sense. However, one of the biggest draws for both of them was that they returned to flying and Sqn life.

The FTRS Sqn uncle posts under discussion are non flying posts.

Wow, you guys are very negative about the FTRS deal. There are plenty of benefits, but you seem hell bent on only pointing out the negative ones and being quite misleading about some of the effects. Perhaps it depends upon the job you do as FTRS?


I know of several FTRS pilots who are more than happy flying and not vegetating at home. They get to keep fit (fitness tests), they DO get HTD, they get paid to fly, have Dining-In Nights, no SDO, certainly no Guard Commander (where did that come from?), sqn camaraderie, expeds etc etc.


Or they could be working at Tesco's. Hmmm, let me consider that for a minute.


It may not suit you guys but it certainly suits others.

As I've just said, the Sqn Uncle posts under discussion are non flying roles, and I'm fully aware that some people would welcome the chance to continue flying, or start again!


As for Dining-In nights, Sqn camaraderie, expeds, etc - while all a bonus, one has to consider how effective a retention/recruitment pull they really are, given:

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...inability.html



Regarding retirement, it doesn't have to equate to "vegetating at home". Whether you spend your retirement doing that, or instead enjoy yourself doing whatever floats your boat, is in your own hands.

You also obviously have no idea of what goes on in the back of a Tesco's store! :ok::ok:
































I made the last bit up!! ;)

But you would get a discount on your groceries!! ;)

Yep - FTRS obviously works for many people, particularly if they can fly and live close to work etc...

However, the Aircrew Sustainability note suggests that Manning are going to create a whole load more FTRS slots across the board. If a 55 year old 'bean stealer' living in the mess at High Wycombe or Northwood suddenly has to start paying to do so, then it will be interesting to see who fills the posts.

Progress or desperation?

I suspect that the initial idea was seen as progress, but by the time the accountants had structured the package it looks like desperation.

Ah Biggus, methinks you posted as I was typing, and I absolutely agree with this.....
I love flying, which is why I've not had a ground tour in over 20 years and didn't go the promotion route and I don't relish the thought of not flying when I reach 55yo, so I guess I will be making the quite obviously poor financial decision to apply for a FTRS flying job in a few years time.


As you say.....whatever floats your boat.

I've just signed on for a 3 year FTRS contract after retiring at 55. I'm not doing it for the financial gain, I'm doing it because I can continue to do a job that I love, with a great group of people.

Not everything is defined by ££££'s.

HTD and No SDO
 

HTD - always told it isn't payable to FTRS -something to do with no upheaval such as posting/relocation.

No SDO? Must mean someone else is covering then as that could only be a local management call!

tailchase - it IS claimable, several mates at work successfully argued the point and won and the SDO is a local thing.


why wont smilies work?

Daf H,

Good for you, but I would suggest that for many, "love of the job" only goes so far:

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...inability.html

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...retention.html



The very fact that there is FTRS flying slot available for you to apply for is an indication that many don't feel the way you do!