Proposal for a Mil history/nostalgia thread
 

Gentleman and ladies,

The opening gambit of this thread is that it is for Mil aviators.

My experience over the past 7-8 years is that this is becoming less true.

Perhaps we should split the thread and have a "nostalgia/memories" thread and "current ops"

Thoughts?

Ralph

Ralphmalph said:
Why?

Sun.

Sun,

Because the disconnect from today and yesterday is never so big as now.

I want to hear about mil stories, current ones... Not about Changi in the dark ages.

Less and less of my serviceman and women venture here for the reason.....it's irrelevant.

The Present
 

Perhaps because with so little to look forward too Military Aviation has become a nostalgia wall anyway.

Half the stories seem to be about how good/bad it used to be....

Perhaps,

But there would be a context.....scroll down the posts on page now.....how any are from today's military?

Ralph

I assume you have conducted a detailed survey of your people to determine whether they read PPRuNe ?

However, as an old fart who only did 30 years, feel free to insert your head in your bottom and ignore the lessons of history.

Fly safe.

A quick review of the threads currently running suggests to me there's a (roughly) 505:50 split between 'current' stuff and more 'nostalgic' stuff.
For my tastes, that split sits about right.
The present is informed by the past. I find a minority of posts by the 'old boys' to be bigoted, narrow minded and out of touch. I find a minority of the posts by those still serving to be naive and poorly informed.

I find the majority of posts to be interesting, informative and frequently humorous.

For my vote - leave things as they are, I like the mix.

Just saying.:)

Sun.

Ralph I'm going to make an assumption here (SOP for PPrune) that you like me are a fairly intelligent fella. Here's what I do when opening PPrune. I read the post title and open those that appeal to me. I tend to ignore the ones that do not. Hell, every now and then, just for a laugh, I open the ones that don't appeal; well you know you got to live fella.:ugh:

Where do you draw the line between "Current Ops" and "Old Ops"?

I find discussions about WWII just as entertaining as i do those about this morning's news.

Do you think I would find a WWII SK R-4 Pilot's tales of flying in Burma to be any less valuable than some current fellow crying about a cut in allowances?

Get real folks....read what you want....get involved in the discussions you want.....and ignore everything else. In most cases you are not missed.

SASLess,
Absolutely. A phrase I like to use is 'history is prologue'; often this 'history' is paid for very dearly. We need to be very careful not to overlook the lessons of the past and other types of campaigns in other theatres as we focus on current Ops. The last thing we need is a generation of Desk Officers that only understand Ops through the Afghan prism; fora such as this should be widely read by junior aircrew to broaden their knowledge and experience. I give a RW tactics history lecture to junior aircrew - the lack of background knowledge of anything other than Afghanistan is disappointing, but not unexpected. If operators ignore the lessons of history then ignorance and hubris can be the result

I think Ralph has a point.

Perhaps an 'in mil' / 'ex mil' split would work. Who knows?

My take on PPRuNe Mil is that it is a continuation of Mess Happy Hour / Squadron Beer Calls / Section Piss Ups etc

Banter. serious, lamp-swinging, informative, historic, all types of chatter is here.

Besides, where would us sad old ex tossers go for our fix?

taxydual said:

I still don't see the point. SASless had it right:


SUN.

Age: 58

Buggah!:sad: I'd better shut it then :{

What was the slogan of the 'News of the World'? Oh yes, all human life is here.

Bit like PPRuNe Mil.

Something for everyone.

I am extremely interested in current ops as well as old and bold. My take on it would be that a week of postings would cover current ops and then where do you go? As has been pointed out, it's just as easy to read the post headings and dive in or stay out. And any real; change would be subject to thread drift such as the Harrier, don't mention Sharkey, did a job the Spitfire couldn't, though the Mk IX, while Tonka...so you see my point. But thanks everyone for making this a place to spend many happy hours. :ok:

I'd tend agree with the thread starter but to be honest Pprune is a very different place from when I joined in 96. The number of serving military users has decreased markedly over the last 5 years or so, due to a combination of thumbscrews from the military hierarchy along with the slow dilution of the interesting stuff with triv, rubbish and spottery.

Lots of the historical stuff is fascinating; the thread on life as WW2 pilot for example is gold dust. Sadly there is an equal amount that is just tenuous triv. The old adage of any forum is "if you don't like the subject, don't read the thread". That's all well and good but sadly most interesting/relevant subjects quickly vanish up their own cyber backsides as random people get involved adding more and more noise of ever decreasing relevance.

The Wg Cdr Spry thread, for example, should be a place to discuss current topics or good old "I learnt about flying" stories that inform and educate. It shouldn't be a place to air tired and tedious old hobby horses or to pick fault with the RAF hierarchy.

I'd agree that there is a place for historical & nostalgic military aviation chat but I think there is also a place for discussion of current military topics, drawing where necessary, on the mountains of retired experience out there.

Pprune is currently of little relevance to 90% of serving folk. A bit of demarcation might turn that around....

I have to go with Tomjoad on this one. 30 years in and I still have stuff to learn from "current servers", I also have lots to learn from Danny42C, I suggest that PPrune Mil forum tends to find its own balance, and if anyone wants to split off and go all "hissy fit" then so be it. I for one have no interest.

Smudge

As a humble civilian who loves to read all the stories that appear I hope PPRuNe Military Aircrew stays about the same.
This is the only place that I know of where I can read these stories. Oh yes and surely the really modern stuff is still
covered by The Official Secrets Act and perhaps shouldn't even be mentioned ?

Sorry to intrude I will go away now, thanks for your time.

Ralph - in a word "no"

The best comment I've seen is

I 100% get this. As a Fg Off on my first FL sqn I learned masses from the old sweats in the Mess Pub. Now nearly a quarter of a century later, I am that "old sweat", still serving and with the way NEM is going I might be in for another 15-20 years!!! The knowledge I gleaned to help my in my service career from retired honourary mess members was invaluable.

As for current ops, they should not live on an insecure open-to-all bulletin board - but I guess you already knew that! :ok:

LJ

PS I did leave the Regs to go FTRS, would you propose that the 400 or so FTRS mates have their own thread as well...:} (alright, don't answer that!)

LJ,

I for one fully agree with your argument. If this forum is for anything it's to give all of us, ex military, a chance to have an opinion. I can disagree with Beagle or Flight idle, it doesn't matter, both respect my right to an opinion. The OP seems to be suggesting that the serving personnel should divorce themselves from their own history. Well, that sounds a bit sad to me. I still have mates serving, we share a few beers, some banter and respect each others opinions. What's the need for stripping out the current from the ex ? We all have something to learn.

Smudge

And the current serving page would be a ghost town, Current ops... now there's an idea, discuss them on an open forum, sure that'll go down a treat in Whitehall.
Also how would you tell a current from a former member?

I suspect that those proposing this move don't like being told that there is something to be learned from the past and from those that served in it. So be it, but the forum that does not learn from the past is doomed to repeat it...

Chug,

Spot on.

Smudge

This thread is exactly what is right about this Forum in general.

A provocative post is made (even if not meant to be such) and a very good discussion takes off.

When we bring up the value of historical context, I am reminded Ol' BEAGS should be the go to person as he was a Corporal when the Wright Brothers were born.

The amazing amount of experience that can be found here has always been something I have enjoyed. As I have survived to become an Old Fart.....I freely admit I owe it to those that I followed in this business of flying airplanes and helicopters.

I see no way to break what we do into nice neat convenient segments so that we can just pigeonhole our discussions. No matter how a Thread starts....there is no requirement it continue on a straight defined course to its completion.

If one wanders....in time someone will inject a comment that causes a change in course....maybe even back to the original topic.

We do, of course, have a history and nostalgia forum that has always included mil in many of its past forms. It works, and it is interesting, when a topic is opened that throws a few people back to when they were a lad in the mil.

With diminishing returns of our current military it is probably better to leave things as they are.

Funny how this old chestnut turns up from time to time. If you missed the last couple of episodes, Ralphmalph, I must assume you're not a hugely regular user here. And that is part of the issue; as mentioned before, it would be a pretty quiet place without all the current and highly active members that we have now.

If you were to be made redundant next year would you immediately hand in your keys to PPRuNe along with your ID card on the grounds that your opinion was valid here yesterday, but not today?

It has always been the case here that serving personnel tend to read more than they post, often for good reasons, not the least being that the powers that be take a dim view of people that put themselves forward as unofficial spokspersons, especially if the views expressed are sensitive, controversial or critical.

PPRuNe Pop's decision is a good one for ALL that use the Mil Forum.

Courtney

Right! That's settled. Can we close this one and open a nostalgia thread then?

I remember when Nostalgia threads were much better than the current crop...

Yep! They don't grow them like they used to when I was a young whipper snapper.

"Today's Ops" become "Yesterday's Ops" in very short order. At some point in one's life the fit young rooty-tooty top gun becomes the "old bugger full of war stories sitting in the corner with his pint". However, as many have pointed out, those war stories come at some cost and have been hard won by experience.

So go ahead and split the forum; miss out the histories and stuff that might possibly stick in your head and save your life some day. Most of us don't really care if the OP ends up in the proverbial smokin' hole in the ground - except that it's a fellow RAF serviceman in that unfortunate position and we'll commiserate along with your squadron mates.

The RAF is for the young. But don't forget the young at heart of those that served, for we have only your best interests at heart. And anyway we enjoy a good yarn over a beer or three :ok:




'twas ever thus.

Oi! I resemble that remark

Permission to join your corner, Ali.

Surely not - wasn't he the model for this 1920 recruitment poster?

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps26db0aa0.jpg

Very funny, but the only time I was an NCO was in the school CCF.

Wow! I didn't know they had a CCF back then.

Ok I was never a Military pilot but I did serve as ground crew so the last time I checked I'm ok to use this forum. But as I'm now a civillian Military Contractor (not waste of space btw) I'm just wondering where I fit into the proposed scheme:confused:

AGS man,

My original post is borne out of a number of desires.

For the serving man/woman, this forum can be a gold mine. I have perceived over the years a steady decline in my fellow serving members participating.....for many reasons, one being continually raised in crew rooms is

"It's full of old duffers banging on about how it was in xxxxxx"

Maybe unfair, but there is an element of truth and straight talking in that. All of us as servicemen like to reminisce.

I know security is a limitation.....and some topics are verboten.

My views are no "hissy fit", merely an idea to try and bring information, discussion and debate.

I understand the relevance of past lessons....And am a huge proponent of the adage.. "Before you blindly run off like an enthusiastic spastic, someone somewhere has probably done this before"

I am in no way denigrating those who have served before....and whose ranks I will join.....perhaps very shortly!

Honestly.....if I am being very very truthful, I feel that the proportion of relevance to me as a serving military aviator.....is diminishing.

Not much to be done about that but just skim the site once a week.

SASless....my OP was not meant to inflame or be provocative.....it was borne out of frustration, and a desire to perhaps see the same kind of interaction that used to occur on PPrune. IHMO.

Ralph

Rumour has it when he signed up they used a slate for the "paperwork".

:E

Surely not - wasn't he the model for this 1920 recruitment poster? Warmtoast

The equivalent dark blue slogan was "Join the Navy and see the world", which inevitably led to "Join the Fleet Air Arm and see the next ....":(

Very funny, but the only time I was an NCO was in the school CCF. - BEagle

I'm shocked - Let's hope that the RAF Club doesn't find that out ....:D

Oh, and regarding Ralph's original point, Shakespeare summed it up pretty well in The Tempest when he said "What's past is prologue".:ok:

Jack

In those days Beags you didn't have to be a commissioned officer to be a pilot. Anyway, I bet under that hat he has more hair than you ever had!