The Treasury have indeed looked for evidence of people leaving before providing the approval. Whilst the single services now have a bit more flex than they did the remaining core of aircrew is so small that requiring people to leave before grabbing the FRI stable door can leave us with significant capability holes that could take years to recover.

Some fleets are already reducing below critical mass (ie not self sustaining) and the FJ training system is not far behind.

What fleets are struggling that much?

Are we going to have a glut of post-HERRICK aircrew as Shadow, Sentinel and Reaper either do or don't get absorbed into core, and the TGRF continues to get cut....?

FRI
 

Bring it on please. As I have said previously, I am sufficiently shallow that a decent wedge of money would keep me in for another few years. It wouldn't even have to be that huge to be honest. The recently deceased 80K (minus tax) for Flt Lts would help me out enough to tempt me. Especially when added to the lump sum due shortly thereafter. However a bigger number would only serve to increase the likelihood of me staying!
BV:O

I think the bigger problem with FRIs now is that it comes out of the money devolved to the Single Service. Previously the sS applied to the Treasury/MoD for extra money, now they have to fund it out of their own pot. So, the question for CAS is, what you are going to sacrifice to afford the FRI? The type of money people have been mooting on here are about equivalent to 2 or 3 Junior Ranks' annual salary (at least). Are you prepared to stand up to The Sun (or Defence Select Committee) and say you're worth that?

Surely the request for an FRI just a few years (is it 3 now?) after kicking out large numbers of baby pilots still in the training system (who hadn't actually failed anything), who would just have started to become productive, will take a lot of explaining to beancounters in the Treasury. :ugh:




Still, I expect someone got promoted out of "managing" the cull at the time!! :=

Alfred
 

The Sun will report whatever they like regardless of the facts. The numbers speak for themselves which is why FRIs can be an effective measure. You keep experienced people around for longer leading to additional manpower and a wealth of knowledge for a comparably small outlay.
BV:8

I know what they should use, but that's not the same as they will use....

Not all aircrew are created equal.

Your E3 driver may not want to convert to RW.

etc etc

My replacement's training cost is well into the millions, and they wouldn't give me that as an FRI; so it's a saving! The training pipeline's often kinked, and even if it's working fine, you don't need an LCR pilot who can't do anything; you need to be able to keep your high level multi-qualified QWI/QFI guys with experience and lots of platforms under their belts.

I'm not sure there are any branches or trades where a new guy straight from training can immediately have the same effect as a guy with 20 years of experience, but in the aircrew world, that gulf is more pronounced. It's really difficult to put a price on the knowledge and experience of a 20 year FJ pilot, but considering it's going to cost you millions to get a replacement to the point where he can safely land a Typhoon or Lightning II, never mind operate it, paying him 6 figures to stay around isn't a bad option.

PN, he may not, but are we that split between streams that we'd need to move lots of people sideways? Or could our E3 guy go fly Sentinel or Voyager instead? Could our Reaper people go back to their old fleets, bearing in mind we have very few straight-through Reaper pilots?

I remember being told we have too many people for now to 2014, but too few for 2015-2020.

Reaper pilots...good one!;)

Orca, the Reaper force is staffed by dozens and dozens of experienced pilots from other fleets... if we were to downsize that fleet, shouldn't we send them back there or re-use their experience somehow?

With a few honourable exceptions, most Reaper pilots are there for a very good reason!

(retires to a safe distance) :E

5F5B, I only mentioned E3, the OP also mentioned Sentinel and Reaper.

Besides lots of 'aircrew' at Waddo but few aviators.

And flying the E-3 isn't exactly rocket science. Apart from the engineer, at least they had a job to do. The pilots, and nav especially, were grossly under-utilised.

From my understanding, 5F6B may well be onto something. At a Manning brief early this year, a lot was hanging on (a) Sentinel and Shadow being taken into core funding and (b) whether the VC10/TriStar/Herc K combo went out of service on time. Seeing as (a) hasn't happened yet and (b) is proceeding apace, one may surmise that there may be few to no openings in ME for current FJ or RW folks. Given that the RAF is soon to lose two of the four main RW fleets, and one of two FJ fleets is drawing down, those on high may well assume that shuffling around those who are left will suffice. Of course I'm being simplistic, but then so are our Lords and Masters!

FRI? I'm not holding my breath...

First Officer Military/Airbus at Virgin Atlantic Airways in Redhill, United Kingdom - Job | LinkedIn

Any takers?

Anyone with the option to take that Virgin offer would be wise to consider it IMO.

OAP

Check out this months Air Forces
monthly. CAS quoted at a conference saying shadow taken into core, sentinel due to retire 2015 unless funded from another source, Reaper not confirmed but inferred to be taken into core.
This is balanced against the Tristar (maybe) going out on time.
It's a bit of a toughie for manning I'd say.

Yep, Shadow will stay, as will Reaper but Sentinel remains in the balance.

In a way the above is a bit of a red herring as one of the problems we have is with OCU output. There are quite a few fleets with rather poor fleet availability outside of aircraft directly committed to ops. This leaves us with gaps on the frontline and aircrew waiting on or struggling to get through an OCU. In addition, some OCUs are struggling to grow or retain their instructor cadre and the frontline is not well placed to give-up its experienced personnel to instructional roles.

As a result we are unable to replace the current loss rate. We need aircrew to stay where they are for a bit whilst the post-SDSR crisis calms down - hence the growing call for an FRI. In truth, we are below critical mass on a number of fleets and we are running out of ideas on how to fix the problem with what we have left.