Drinking Culture in the RAF – Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.
 

As I sit here nursing a beer following the loss of the British Lions game (it’s not over yet) it reminding me of a conversation I had in work a few days ago about drinking in the RAF.

When I joined in 78 the drinking culture was huge. Between joining in 78 to leaving in 07 I saw a dramatic change in attitude from high level leadership towards the drinking culture.

At Swinderby and Halton at aged 17, getting hammered was totally normal, and sociably acceptable by everybody from the top down, despite the fact you were underage. Yes, you were given special coloured epaulets if you were over 18, but they were just shared amongst the under aged chaps (lass’s were treated quite differently in those days). Everybody knew it went on and provided you did not get into trouble it was unofficially accepted.

After being posted in to the real Air Force, lunch time drinking was the norm and Friday midday or end of shift the whole Sqn/Flt/Section was off down the pub or had a beer call.

A posting to Germany and the drinking culture went into 5th gear. I remember when I first went to Bruggen and the Stash used to have a yearly competition on which Sqn/Section/even MQ blocks down in Elmpt, had the best bar.

Over the years I saw this attitude change. Bars and booze slowly, but surely became frowned upon and some bars were closed down and banned. Ironically, this change of attitude came from the top leaders (strangely the same chaps that used to get hammered when they were young officers’ in a sociably acceptable culture), but in my experience it continued at working level. Most still enjoying going for that “Shed On” on a Friday beer call.

I have been out 6 years now, but now and again I meet up with the old crowd and we still go for it big style :O:O

So, I was just wondering what it is like now and what the attitude to a great big pi$$ up will be in the future.

Hmm. Having joined in '79 I agree with SRENNAPS and his description of those days both in the UK and RAFG.

However, with hindsight , it seems that the drinking culture was seen as the lesser of two evils compared to drug use.

In saying that you have to remember the Septics with their Vietnam fiasco and the prevalence of drug use and the problems that arose in the field.

I third the previous two posts. Joined B/E in 1960 at 16 y/o. Sitting in a pub in Barry Island with some mates when in walked a large Welsh policeman. Fortunately he was a good chap who just said "I'll be back in 10 minutes lads, I suppose you'll have left by then". Never found out if he returned because we had gone.
Once in the real mob lunchtime and nightshift supper sessions were the norm.
Happy daze!

I was posted from Halton (in 1971) as a wet behind the ears 17 1/2 year old Jnr Tech. I was employed on a Base 3 Servicing team, which consisted of around 50 personnel of all trades. Managed by a Flt Sgt, the Airframes and Engine trades were run by Chf Techs. We had our own OC, a Fg Officer Engineer Branch. Every Thursday the whole team "paraded" at the " Fox" in Colerne village. On walking in there were pies and pints for everyone, which was usually followed by another ale. The bill for this was paid for out of a team fund, which we all contributed to, dependant on rank. I never saw anyone drunk in the 2 years I was on that team, there was never any "trouble" and I suspect that most of us learned the "art" of how to drink sensibly from our SNCO's who were always the last to leave at 1300 hrs. I think the drinking got a lot heavier by the 80s and that's when I believe, restrictions began to enter the service. By the time I left in 1997 it was frowned on to have a pint with your lunch, and then return to work. I'd like to say, looking back, aahhh those were the days, but I'm not convinced that the service is now the worse for controlling alcohol consumption. I know that many of the Drivers Airframe and their fellow crew members always had the 8 hour bottle to throttle rule, which always seemed sensible to me, and generally did not impede on people's needs for a beer or two. It's fair that the Groundcrew operate similarly, if they are to maintain their professional integrity.

Smudge

Smudge, I wasn't suggesting we returned to work legless which wouldn't have been acceptable even back then. A max of two pints of beer would rarely, if ever have been exceeded. If later, 1980's, alcohol consumption needed to be controlled then that's another story.

As a young airman in Germany I was an enthusiastic member of the drinking culture, along with just about everyone else. Although enthusiastic I wasn't (fortunately I suppose) very good at it. The same drinking culture existed on every RAF Base, in my experience, especially o/seas. The furniture in the 'Pigs Bar' at Tengah was bolted to the floor for obvious reasons!
As Ord. Sgt. at Akrotiri, I had to clear the Airmen's Club of about 30 hard drinking Paras. Fortunately there were a couple of dog handlers hovering outside and on seeing them the Paras upped and left, in a semi orderly manner.
The IT company I joined in the early '70s also had a drinking culture, especially among middle management. By the time I left in the mid '90's that too had diminished somewhat.

Shack,

Sorry if I leave the wrong impression. I certainly wasn't insinuating that anyone was rolling back to work at 1300 canned. I just had the impression that for a period of time it became quite acceptable to partake, and, as always, one or two overdid it. I for one am certainly no saint, and certainly used my time as a Herk GE to sample some delightful watering holes. Apologies again for any idea I may have left that I thought you had a drinking problem.:ugh:

Smudge

I'm afraid you wouldn't recognise it now then. I suspect the work hard play hard culture was part of the military being a way of life rather than a job. Unfortunately, that has diminished and we have become more and more corporate in our outlook, our language and our ways of working. There is little room for a hard drinking culture these days, especially as post-incidents, the investigative chain has a very long reach and can include breathalysers and testing for blood alcohol levels.

As we move to the NEM and more and more people are encouraged to live off base, what little reamins of the work hard play hard culture post-PAYD will be finally killed off as beer calls become soft drink calls as people have to drive home.

Now I must admit to being a bit of a lightweight these days - I did most of my life's drinking between starting uni and finishing my second tour, but even I can see the benefits of getting everyone together for a session to enhance unit cohesion, following a success, or as a way of bringing people together after some bad news.

Sorry, it's now all part of the "Nannie" culture. The RAF ethos was in my time partly bar based (happy hour , POETS hour, drinking on a dead mate's bar bill etc,)
Some Aircrew USED to drink a bit at lunch time and fly in the 60's . 70's no way , unless there was nothing on in the afternoon- perhaps.
Happy hour was always a good opportunity to collar the Boss about some real or imagined bugbear, keeping in mind that his quarter was likely fodder for a "Taceval" later in the evening.
Yes, we drank hard and played hard. "In vino veritas" taught us youngsters a lot from our seniors and all was forgotten on Monday Morning.
Later, in Industry, I found that a definition of a "Good Farnborough" was one in which more alcohol than aviation fuel was consumed.
All terribly non -PC now.
You're welcome to it.
P.S. Posted before reading the above submission......

Delving through the ULAS archives in about 1992, I found a bar chit dating from our time at White Waltham 20 years earlier, Haraka - which vividly described the vile concotions created for a night of 7 - 14 - 21.....

I've no idea how we survived!

In 1977-9, if we landed the tin triangle after night flying, it was common to adjourn for a 'crew round' if the Scruffs' Bar was still open. Beer was 20p per pint, there were five in the crew and we all bought a round for a pound. Five pints later, we all went home - and thought nothing of it. We simply didn't know any better.....

Drinking Culture.
 

I think it's an age thing:

"When the blood ran in my veins
And the curls lay on my brow
Then did I, O undergraduates
Much as you are doing now"

D.

Can't remember a thing......:yuk:.

OAP

Chad says ...

http://www.diggerhistory.info/images...kroy-small.jpg

Taken in moderation and occasional excess once the Hangar Doors are closed ... not a problem :ok:

I remember in RAF Bruggen Alcohol was allowed in the Blocks as long as it was for immediate consumption and a crate of Grolsch was acceptable.

We had a couple of deaths when I was there, one in Roermond involving a train sadly and another ran over on the way back from the Feardry Inn, poor kid that hit him as he staggered out in front of his rover had only been driving a short time.

Ha! Someone will claim that there were Joker cards soon:ooh:.

OAP

Had the same conversation with my Daughters on a recent long drive:

My experience of the RAF's Friday drinking was this:
Pub at 1200
Out by 1500
Sweep & Sign-Up 'til 1600 (ish)
Home.
I did that more or less for four years 'til my Fitters Course.

Posted to RAFG in the v. early 80s: I went for a 2200 Duty Evening meal and was taken to the Naafi instead where we quaffed three pints each...when I got back to work - I found I couldn't!

I haven't done that since.


...well, not when at work!
Cheers!
Rigga

It is down to two reasons I reckon.

In the "old" days people had nothing in there room so would pop out for a quick beer to the Naffi/Mess to be social. Fridays were an excuse to finish early to be honest and beer calls were looked forward to all week.

Now, everybody has internet in their rooms and cars on the car park. People just sit in most nights now and play console games and bugger off at the weekend in their cars.

Naafis and messes are like ghost towns now with some closing at weekends because nobody stays on camp.

Sounds like a right bunch of sado's these days from that description.

Might not of had Internet in those days, but had motorbike / car, TV, Video, kettle, Toaster, HiFi, PC and could while away many an hour waiting for my game tape to load whilst watching the bright flashing colours on the screen...

And still went out socialising...

Ahh I wondered how we ever did it, out on the town, night clubbing to 5.30 am in Jever, back to the station and the block, have a wash and pop on the uniform and await the crew van at 7am to take us to work

:}

Ahhh anyone remember the 52 hour discos they used to do at Rheindalen for charity? When the bar shut a beer store opened... Remember getting home Sunday night late, having left on Friday evening early to go to it...

Same at Christmas at Bruggen, a bar was open all day in the NAAFI to some silly time, was normally followed by Champagne and Strawberries for breakfast in the ermmmmmm WAAF block. :O

Then there was the block parties........exercise, in at a stupid time, back to the block 7pm ish with 5am ish start, so corridor party and so drunk was one and all no one knew the police block next door had even burnt down until subsequently we were all interviewed by the SIB

But as said, it was the culture of the time.... Damn miss those parties :E

Looking back, to 1963 when I joined, pretty well every event was either preceded by alcohol, had alcohol involved or was succeded by alcohol. I do not drink at all these days having realised, over the years, that I had built up some dependence.

Maybe's it's just that we are old farts and dont get invited anymore. :{ :{

Same here TW50, I can go months without any then may have a few before going months again without touching it... Though I do enjoy a bottle of wine on a weekend of late.

Smudge,
Thanks for your reply, I did not read your post as suggesting anything of the sort ergo no apology required.:ok:

Joined in 76 and after training and into the real RAF at Lossiemouth, it was out on the town or in the Naafi 4 or 5 nights a week, and at least 4 pints a night. The bars shut at 10.30 in Scotland then and that was drag, until they introduced 11-11 hours for pubs and the Naafi open till I think 00.00 or even 01.00. I can well remember one day being on the booze from 11.00am until Midnight, trying to dance with some lass at the Naafi bop and unable to move my feet, I was so drunk. Woke up on Sunday morning, and nothing, no hangover or side effects at all. I remember having a little internal word with myself about it warning me to watch it in future. Two tours in Belize with a lot of weekends in the City knocking back the drink, and a posting in between to Kinloss, which was a social club, masquerading as an RAF Base. In all that time I never felt I was out of control or it was a problem, I was young and could handle it. The one thing I would never do, was put in for Germany. Whenever you asked anyone what Germany was like, it was always about the alcohol. I know a few folk who came back from there with not necessarily an alcohol problem, but with a large rate of consumption of the stuff, and the big difference in price was a problem for them. I bought a 4 pack some months ago to have a drink watching the European cup final, planning to have one for each half. As it turned out I forced myself to finish the first one, and the other 3 are still sitting in the fridge. I guess when you were out with your mates you looked after each other, you were young and daft, and had the money to spend, but as you got older the money was better spent on other things.

An interesting post.
I served in the RAF in the 80s and there definitely was a drinking culture BUT as long as you stuck to the adage of 'Dont be late on parade', drinking seemed to be an accepted part of the work hard, play hard attitude to life in the RAF. Now after 20 years in civvie mode, i can see that there is equally hard drinking as i ever saw in the RAF. I still see guys drinking 20 pints in a session that would floor me after half that amount but at the same time they will never pass BFT or would ever be seen as the right material for military life now, although some of them are ex Army and RAF.
I served on the same squadron as the OP and we have plenty of stories of life in the 'front line' in RAFG enjoying the benefits of overseas allowance and an inclusive environment stationed in a fantastic community - life really was good!
Attitudes to alcohol have changed and no doubt the RAF has moved in the same direction as the corporate world (although some people still manage to have those corporate long boozy lunches and then go back to their desks for the afternoon).
Like everything else there were times we want to forget but I do remember being pulled up by my SENGO as i'd been spotted by aircrew quaffing a quick cup of Gluhwein when i was on nightshift at a Guy Fawkes night at Brueggen and I had to put my hands up and apologise. The most important point is I dont think we were relaxed about the consumption of alcohol and its impact on the safety of the lives of our comrades.
That said, i do still remember the joys as a young J/T at Coningsby, I learnt about the pleasure of being nominated to fit the LOX pots on early shift and doing oxy flow checks in the cockpit :ok:

Back in the sixties a lot of the senior pilots were ex-wartime, when a lot of drinking went on. I suppose when tomorrow's flight might be your last, that was to be expected. In fact, in Enemy Coast Ahead, Gibson responds to criticism of the drinking culture and explains that it had a lot to do with bonding and esprit de corps.

I went through pilot training in '65-'66 and the expected was bar till eleven, breakfast at seven, brief at eight and airborne at nine. I found as I got older that the quality of oxygen seemed to change: a quick whiff was no longer enough. Nowadays the commercial guys daren't touch the stuff during the working week.

The death knell for the drinking culture was sounded when the QFI on an early morning weather check did an ultra low level run along Gouthwaite Reservoir and buried a wingtip in the water. He was found to be still half pissed after a heavy and late night on the booze.

Rules on dinking went through the roof - some took it to extremes; for example, an edict came from on high that guests to messes were to be served soft drinks only - my Staish sent a missive back to the effect that HE would decide what to serve guests on HIS station.

These days, the drinking culture is largely dead - the latest generation are not used to 'going for a beer' at the end of the day/week...

When I joined in 1965, I was ex Mercantile Marine (Merch) where we thought ourselves quite a drinking womanising bunch.
As a new junior RAF officer, I rapidly formed the opinion that the RAF had the MN beaten into a corner in those respects.
A very minor custom was that, refuelling in Istres le Tube near Marseille we would have a glass of wine with lunch before continuing to Malta or Cyprus. One day, on a whole crew route check, the wine arrived but, of course, no-one touched it until the 54yo route check captain picked up a bottle and announced "Shall we just treat this like a normal trip?"
The drinking, extramarital shagging and GF swopping were legendary.
Aahh :O

Edited to say - Had a look this am to see if I'd posted anything bannable post drinks ;)

Anyone remember pints of Tizer? :E

'Twas cheaper to put spirits in the glass at Bruggen than the mixer, so pints of Bacardi coke etc was the norm in the Naff 1...

Or Deci and the Deci red purchased from a "petrol pump" behind the German Bar.


:D

In the 50's one was expected to be in the mess bar at 5:30pm with the rest of the squadron. I seem to recall that habitual absence was reflected on ones annual report. Same for dining in night's, one was expected to be there and get involved in mess games.

Happy daze!!!

Bob C

I can remember being posted to RAFU Goose Bay in the early 70s. Goose was on the special duties list at the time and was parented by Waddington.

Sgt Oberon duly presented himself at Waddington and was interviewed by a Sqn. Ldr. Educator, part of the conversation went :-

"Sgt., are you teetotal ?" "No, sir"

"Are you a habitual drinker ?" "No, sir"

"That's OK then, we don't like to send drunks or teetotallers to Goose, just normal people who are going to get smashed 2-3 times a week", and we did.

Ah the 60's. I well recall one very foggy morning at Syerston with a poor forecast for the afternoon. The boss suggested a session at a local pub in a nearby village. We all marched down, yes; marched, leaving a duty boy on the desk. Well into a very convivial session, the boss took a call from the duty boy. The weather had miraculously cleared and the CFI wanted to know why the f*** we weren't flying. After a rapid RTB, we manned up for Staff Continuation Training. No studes were subjected to our possibly degraded abilities. A lot of formation aeros and circuits and we were soon fit for the evening session. AND boxes were ticked.

I was sitting next to a German Service mate on a flight some years ago and started browsing the Airline's In-Flight magazine. Amongst the usual inane drivel was an article including one of those "effects of Alcohol" pieces, including the loading table. " One beer = no effect," "Two beers = slight elevation of mood" up to "Twenty Beers = danger of total loss of consciousness - possible death".
Now Edgar was a drinker of the old German School, so out of interest I handed the magazine across to him for his opinion. With a bored expression he looked at it , glanced down the "Alcohol effects" table and passed it back.
" I drink more than that before I have a p*ss", he replied.

Remember Aunty Joan at Neatishead, with a smile on her face watching the look of disgust on the late great Ken Hayr's face as he realised the beer the Boss had given him was non-alcoholic. She reminded him it was his rules as AOC. I think it was quickly changed for a "proper" pint!

Must be something wrong in the RAF then. I have absolutely no recollection whatsoever of ever drinking any alcohol in the army:-)

I recall being told on some course or other that excess alcohol was frequently detected after most non-technical failure flying accidents, but that was such a potential hot potato that it was never disclosed if other factors were likely to have been more contributory.....:uhoh:

First posting in 1960 after Boy Entrant training and 617 squadron Christmas p.u. at the big pub by Caenby Corner. My first squadron bash, lots of grizzled old timers on the squadron who seemed intent on breaking wet behind the ears former boy entrants into the culture. The ‘eats’ that night was a simple affair; a great cauldron of thick pea soup and crusty bread. The grizzled old timers had determined I was to drink pints of bitter with rum and black chasers. The combined effect of the soup and the drinks made for a rather colorful yawn just outside, fortunately before boarding the bus to return. There were many walking wounded and I thought I did well to start feeling human again in just under 48 hours; heavy duty stuff. Good foundation for two tours at Akrotiri, one in Masirah and a handful of detachments (including a couple in Malta).

Was there a drinking culture in those days … certainly but, as quite a few have pointed out, we were expected to show up at work on time and police ourselves when it was needed. I left the air force in 1975 and went to work within aviation in the Middle East and found a pretty heavy duty drinking culture there also. I did witness a slowing down over the years, for the better I think. I’m retired now but still do a little consulting, simple rules apply; enjoy your drink but don’t make an ass of yourself. I meet up occasionally with an ex 33rd entry buddy who also lives in Manila and on such occasions feel free to be a little more flexible, wives being responsible for return transport arrangements tends to keep a bit of a cap on things though. :ok:

Indeed. Possibly the Flying Supervisors' Course.

I think that was the one I attended when Day One finished with the Alcohol Abuse lecture and film ......

........ closely followed by the Welcome Barrel!! :ok:

QRTFX

Probably " The Monk's Arms ", still there, but a bit worse for wear.

Dam, I am well pi$$ed and I have to fly to Munich tomorrow. Nothing changed for me then :):)

On detachment to Tengah from Akrotiri, for two months, Boss gets us all in the crewroom for a Saturday morning social get together, just prior to returning home. When he judged that we'd consumed enough cans of Tiger he announced that we'd been extended for another month. A few moans but on the whole it was accepted and we just got on with it and carried on drinking in the Malcolm Club and London Bar in the village.