The chances are he did serve, but in a very different role. We had and still have plenty of Walts from my time in green, perhaps the most famous being Baron Castleshort. His time with 21 was very short indeed, but look what he did with it.

Many of the Walts have been close to the role they claim and so have been able to pick up some jargon and some believable stories about their "when I was on xxxx".

spimbolligan - it's Cranwell 'entry', not 'intake'. So I suggest you use the term 'intake' - he should then correct you and provide the number of his 'entry'!

Ask him what 'The Orange' is....and also what he flew whilst at Cranwell.

Which squadron at Valley - and did he do any weapons training on the Hawk?

Or you could just say 'Look dude, it is really important to this project that nobody fibs about their experience and expertise. You have told me that you were a Royal Air Force fighter pilot and you look and sound like a dripping Walt. So, **** me not. Are you on the level?'

The trouble is, he might not like you.

I'll come and do it for a 4 bottle lunch.

(I haven't got any mates either)

I was a bit suspicious of the OP given the poster's low thread count however I am inclined to believe he is genuine.

However I am surprised that someone who has used the London Gazette finds it too time consuming. Compared with the time posting here on pprune it was lightning fast. In another post he mentioned the name of a flt lt. In advanced search I entered the name and it immediately returned his RAF details.

In the case of the OP, unless the man has a common name, you should soon narrow it down. You have a year period, he is supposedly GD/P, if chopped he may have re-branched and that would be shown too. It should also show if his commission was relinquished, terminated, or retired.

Many of the Walts have been close to the role they claim and so have been able to pick up some jargon and some believable stories about their "when I was on xxxx".

Oddly, many stories are told by chaps drinking xxxx (4 x) ..............
See what I did there :)

Stating the obvious?
 

Hmm..Sympathise with the difficulties of working for someone who "embellishes" their credentials...I met a few over the years.

However - if this is a sensitive and costly MoD project and said `mate` proves dodgy - then its whistleblowing time. There have been too many cover ups (Allegedly) IMHO.

Good luck.

(As an aside, this forum will be monitored anyway so perhaps wheels are already in motion)

BGG


Apologies. I just assumed it was an aircraft or aircraft equipment contract. While the policy I spoke of has never been rescinded, I do know, for example, that DLO IPTs stopped implementing it and many at AbbeyWood ignored it. Nevertheless, it is mandated primarily because it is the means by which company staff are vetted when granted financial delegation to commit MoD funding without having to seek approval every time. Such appointees are only nominated by the company, but formally approved by MoD, who have the right to hire and fire. The same policy forms the basis of GOCO type contracts. Hence, it is imperative the CVs be correct and the regs require them to be checked regularly. Used to be every year, but I know we went to 3 years when satisfied there was continuity. The only time I ever sacked someone! His CV was accurate, but he was not properly qualified.

Spimbolligan
 

The final Flight Cadet entry at Cranwell was 101, who graduated, and received their commissions, in 1972 IIRC. Entries after that for a couple of years were designated by low numbers followed by GE (Graduate Entry) and the entrants were already commissioned.

This is a simplification but it might help you.

Do let us how you get on.

Rgds SOS

Spimbolligan,

You've got bigger problems in your co-worker than you first considered. Any level-headed, intelligent and mentally stable person who'd served in the RAF would be keeping very quiet about the fact.

Mopeds and fat girls spring to mind :E

London Gazette
 

PN, et al,

There is little point looking for anything recent in the London gazette, becasue, err, the RAF no longer 'Gazettes' it's officers. Stopped in the mid-2000s, along with a published RAF List - both a rather mean-spirited cost-daving measures.

Just a thought??? What if the OP is..... "The gentleman in question claims to have flown Hawks in the RAF in the mid to late 1970s" and looking for info?

Bet you never thought of that. It was quite a common ploy by myself and other operators in MI6 to gain intelligence.

Daz.

OMG ... Now we have a spook :suspect:

Help needed identifying someone who is potentially lying about RAF experience
 

Courtney and BEags,
The two captions are intrinsically linked. A failure of the ECA will lead to an over temp at high power settings. Hence you will get both captions. Ironically although the T6NL is a red caption and the ECA is yellow, the latter becomes the priority. That is because the drill for T6NL is to select idle. With an ECA failure that may flame the engine out.
I love a bit of tech talk in the morning. Smells like...
(Please fill in the gap as you deem appropriate).
BV

TigerM @ #38 ... I thought the Vigilant was our Top Secret 4th V Force Bomber :E

There are many good Air Cadet Officers/Staff who willingly give up their spare time to genuinely help our young people get interested in flying and the RAF rather than sit on their a$$ and/or beat up old ladies ... Equally you will, like in all walks of life, get a few pr@ts.

I can recall an Air Cadet Wing Co referring to his new GI "wings", when first issued, that they "looked like the real thing" on No 5's :rolleyes:

Sad really ... as comments like that tend to tar the more modest volunteers who have worked hard/long to get their GI Rating ... as have professional Regular Aircrew ... but there can be no other comparison.

Easy mistake to make I suppose ... especially if you've had a couple of sherbets :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/...ps613d6c51.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/...pse1120f03.jpg

Recent Gazettes maybe but as the individual was apparently at Cranditz in mid-1970s, assume age 21, and served to age 55 then he could indeed not have been shown as retired about 2008. Now at age 60 he is clearly in a very senior position but would that fit with a full term career?

If he retired in his early 40s then that would have been in the 1990s and definitely gazetted.

Thanks, Bob Viking!

I only did 146 hrs on the Hawk and it was all some 32 years ago, so thanks again for the correction.

The Hawk did have some quirks back then - I seem to recall that pressing the relight button in flight caused all manner of things to happen as accessories were dropped off line? On taxying out at Chiv, I noticed that the GTS had started itself. Tried shutting it down again (can't remember how one did that), but it started itself again - so I binned the trip. It turned out to be a short in the throttle switch, which would have meant that as soon as the weight had come off the wheels on take-off, I'd have had lots of unwelcome captions, nicht wahr?

As far as the bloke in the OP's post is concerned, I think 'mid-70s' is stretching it with respect to the Hawk. Late 70s - perhaps. I did my Gnat course in '77 and, towards the end of my course, the Hawk was just being introduced into Valley service for QFI training.

From personal experience, the T6NL caption was a bad thing. :eek:

STP

Yep, I was on 9 Cse at Valley and the first Hawk course started after us: one of the guys on the first course was Chris who had been on the course 1 behind me at LoO.

That would be late 77 definitively when the Hawk came into training service at VYY.

Absolutely, and thankfully in my experience it is those who genuinely push the boat out that are in the majority. The unfair bit (for the good guys/girls) is that it only takes one of said pratts to ruin it for all. FWIW I have extensive experience as ACLO, Service helper, Committee member and so have come across all sorts in my time. Those who simply like to dress up make my blood boil.

I learnt about faults from that . . .
 

Simply, if it don't work on the ground it ain't going to work any better once airborne.

Back to the OP, ask him for a war story, 'any dicey moments in the Hawk . . . '

Walt's delight, 'there I was, upside down, nothing on the clock except the maker's name and that was in French'

Oh no! Have I been hooked? Have we all been hooked?

Rgds SOS

Finding a Walt
 

Tell him you are collecting the service numbers of ex service friends for comparison. If he doesn't spout it very fast he didn't have one.

If you meet his wife ask her, she will too. Service number was essential knowledge for every wife for all sorts of issues like medical treatment, station library, station nursery school etc.

There is a large service manual called "the retired officers list", we used to ink out the re, you could check his name in it or get a service chum to do so. There is one on most units so any serving person can help. You might be able to get access at one of the stationary office stores or even ebay

Tin, as Whenurhappy said, the Service ran out of money to keep the RAF List in print and the Retired List at all so any book on the station would date from no later than mid-2005 and may therefore have been binned by now.

You are joking, aren't you? My wife would have bitten your head off if you'd suggested that she should know my service number.

Mine too!

Rgds SOS

Well my wife still remembers my service number, and all the family know my 'last three' because it is used as the combination of all of our suitcases.

I did as posted in 2007 and disappears for 6 years and then come back digging for info. Probably on level but could also be a journalist.

BEagle
 

I congratulate myself on remembering my checks from one day to the next. 32years?! Good skills. Although I can claim to have ten times as many Hawk hours as your good self (and counting) so I really ought to remember.
Just to refresh your memory, pressing the relight button offloads all non-essential loads on the engine, such as the generator and HYD 2 system.
But I'm sure you could have remembered that if you thought hard enough.
Anyway, that's enough tech talk before I get the inevitable bead window call.
After all, the mechanics of the Hawk are one of our nation's most closely guarded secrets!
BV:oh:

Come on then Spim...
 

......today was going to be the day. Did you? Or did you not as someone else suggested "grow a pair" and tackle him head on? We're all agog -ish.

The Ancient Mariner

Set the lads over on ARRSE onto the case.... Soon be sorted :E

My dear chap, that sounds harse, perhaps


as Whenurhappy said, the Service ran out of money to keep the RAF List in print and the Retired List at all so any book on the station would date from no later than mid-2005 and may therefore have been RETIRED by now



Sounds better

:ok:

Service number?

I'd get a slap if I told my wife she should know mine.

Evening gents

Update: Our mystery man was confronted and now admits that he was UAS and the Hawk stick time was back seat and once only (apparently, it was the ride of a lifetime...)

I also (subtly) checked colleagues plus the on-file CV - no inflated RAF claims, so no risk to the wider project.

Our hero is chastened and knows that he is under scrutiny. Case closed.

Thank you all for your kind advice and PMs.

One is glad it has all been settled amicably with no detriment to your project, a win win situation one would say.

I once met a guy who said he'd had a backseat ride in a F16 off a USN carrier.

I was in a listed company who's Group Managing Director was the youngest pilot on the Berlin Airlift.
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Also , to a different audience, he was the youngest captain of an R.N. ship on D-day.

The Air Force List was last published in 2007 and the Retired List in 2006 (IIRC).

Although the Air Force List shows all officers and substantive warrant officers or master aircrew and also lists some senior public servants it is always just that little bit out of date, even when just printed.

The Retired List, however, only lists those commissioned officers who RETIRE; that is they - generally - held a permanent commission at the time of their leaving. An officer on a short service commission, who leaves at the end of that engagement, is not deemed to have retired but merely reached the end of their period of service. There are some variations, as with everything but not too many.

Perhaps an easy way to resolve the problem is to contact the Flying Wing Adj at Valley, explain the issue and just ask him to look at the course photos on the wall between dates A and B and let you know if P/O X's name appears. You can tell him that the info is essential to clinch a major commercial deal and if he wants you to write you can do so. Reassure him that you don't want to know anything else - just was this chap actually there! You'll probably get a blank reply but it's worth a try. They do have a community relations officer who might be a better bet.

Old Duffer

The London Gazette is a good source of reference. Amongst other things, it lists commissions, officers' promotions and honours and awards (excluding the special peoples').

One fine SCT day, the boss being away, the junta persuaded the system that some formation practice would be in order.

We had some studes lurking about, a couple of whom asked to come with us.

"Have you done any formation before?", I asked one of them.

"Not really - just half an hour in an F-16"

:hmm:

Which was actually true as he'd been selected for the exchange trip to the US which was available in those days, lucky blighter.

However, halfway through a rather sporting 'tailchase' came the call to knock it off - "Top Gun is serving lunch!" as my chum in the other aircraft described it.

BV, yes, that's what I remembered - attention getters, alternator and part of the hydraulics off line. Which would have been just great at unstick...:\

I gather that the brakes, anti-skid, relight, compass system and lateral stability were all improved in the years after my short time on the Hawk. But no offset TACAN, the Gnat student's friend...:uhoh:

Well if that's true, my recent search on the Gazette website seems to have thrown up a few anomalies. Colleagues promoted in the last year or two all seem to have been gazetted.

Still think the ridiculous decision to scrap the published version of the AFL (and army and navy lists) was stupidly mean spirited. Still find my copy of the last printed version (2007) a useful source of reference.