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Bristows to take over SAR from 2015
Sky news reporting that Bristows are taking over from 2015. Very sad if its true. Official announcement in the morning.
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Announcement at 0700 hrs tomorrow including details of new Agusta Westland and Sikorsky helicopters.
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I wonder how cheap this will be once the ready supply of Service trained crews runs out.
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Rum, old man Bristow, was very rum.
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This is about the removal of the 'Nation State', to be replaced by the private corporation.
You lot on here, really need to find out what is really happening. Naive or what ? Brave New World |
To understand why these things happen.
Read George Orwell's 1984. Read it 5 times ! It takes that long to be aware how profound this book is. Then Aldus Huxley's Brave New World. All your loyalties, and things you hold dear, are being stripped away. Then you will understand WHY ! |
Boulmer & Portland to close.
10 x Sikorsky S92 & 10 x AW139 helicopters to replace SAR fleet. Bristows have it. |
Deja vu ...
http://www.22squadronassociation.org.uk/Manst.jpg http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/a...aperclippi.jpg RAF Manston 70's |
26 March 2013 GOVERNMENT CONTRACT TO DELIVER FASTER, STATE OF THE ART SEARCH & RESCUE FLEET A new £1.6bn contract for search and rescue helicopter services will see the UK benefit from improved flying times and better coverage of high-risk areas. The Department for Transport has today signed a contract with Bristow Helicopters Ltd to provide search and rescue helicopter services in the UK. Helicopters will be able to reach a larger area of the UK search and rescue region within one hour of take off than is currently possible, and based on historic incident data it is estimated that there will be an overall improvement in flying times to incidents of around 20% (from 23 to 19 minutes). Presently, approximately 70% of high and very high risk areas within the UK search and rescue region are reachable by helicopter within 30 minutes. Under the new contract, approximately 85% of the same area would be reached within this timeframe. Today's announcement represents a major investment by the Government in providing a search and rescue helicopter service using the most up to date helicopters and meeting the highest professional standards. Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin said: "Our search and rescue helicopter service plays a crucial role, saving lives and providing assistance to people in distress on both land and on sea. "With 24 years of experience providing search and rescue helicopter services in the UK, the public can have great confidence in Bristow and their ability to deliver a first class service with state of the art helicopters." Under the new contract, 22 state-of-the-art helicopters will operate from 10 locations around the UK. · 10 Sikorsky S92s will be based, two per site, at Stornoway and Sumburgh, and at new bases at Newquay, Caernarfon and Humberside airports; and · 10 AgustaWestland AW189s will operate, two per site, from Lee on Solent and a new hangar at Prestwick airport, and new bases which will be established at St Athan, Inverness and Manston airports. All bases will be operational 24 hours a day. Following 70 years of outstanding service from the RAF and RN search and rescue squadrons, military involvement in search and rescue in the UK is to cease, and with the Sea King helicopter nearing its 40th year of operations, the time has come to change the way the service is provided and the aircraft used. Contracted search and rescue services have operated alongside the RAF and RN since 1983 with great success, and contracted search and rescue crews have won numerous awards for their bravery. The new contract will be managed by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency in the same way as the existing contract that operates the Coastguard helicopter bases on the south coast and on the Western and Shetland Isles. Half of the new fleet will be built in Yeovil and the contract will have a significant impact on the UK supply chain, providing and sustaining jobs and apprenticeships. |
with the Sea King helicopter nearing its 40th year of operations, Or is the press release the one that was prepared 5 years ago when SAR-H was meant to be delivered? Or is MoD just stupid? |
Following 70 years of outstanding service from the RAF and RN search and rescue squadrons, military involvement in search and rescue in the UK is to cease... |
I wonder how much they will pay the Duke of Cambridge? I also doubt that they will give him as much time off......
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I also doubt that they will give him as much time off...... CG |
"This is about the removal of the 'Nation State', to be replaced by the private corporation." etc, rant, etc
Pass the tin foil :p |
StopStart,
That made me chuckle on a miserable Tuesday morning, but Stuffy does have a point. Far far too much of the UK's national and enabling infrastructure has been sold off (given away!) to foreign corporations or is now controlled outside of the UK and it puts us at a serious strategic risk. One of the few things I remember from an extremely tedious 6 months at IOT were the lectures (can't even remember the name of that bit of the syllabus, so can't have been that memorable). In one of them, they pointed out that whilst SAR spent most of its time rescuing overweight walkers in flip flops from Ben Nevis or teenagers with a Darwin complex stuck on a pedalo in the North Sea, their raison d'etre was the rescue of aircrew during times of war. Now I'm not saying an invasion and fight for national survival is imminent, but I do wonder whether that key fact was remembered during the contract discussions. I'd hate for there to be a shooting match and we find out that SAR is no longer able to pick up crews because the threat is deemed to be too great and the Board and shareholders simply wouldn't stand for losing an ac. Or they do go out, but only after we pay the equivalent of a year's contract in advance for one mission. I'm sure it's all been considered, just saying ... |
Imagine the scene down the line, national emergency, defence of the realm imperative, F-35 ends up in the oggin and driver bobs around for a day and a half whilst risk assessment carried out.
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It's amazing how fast you can paint national markings on a helicopter.
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Does anyone know how Carrier SAR is going to be staffed and trained? I would assume that a Naval SAR capability is still needed.
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Surely The Andrew will need to keep the winch / SAR skills up just for basic safety options when afloat.
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I quite agree that farming out SAR to a civvy entity (foreign or otherwise) is possibly a bit foolish and will certainly have the effect of taking yet more of the military out of the public eye but I don't think it'll affect the service offered. It's just a shame there will now be a profit motive and bottom line involved.
I would much rather see military SAR continue but the way things are these days there just isn't the money. It would be nice (fanciful) to see the military continue with in-house development of much smaller but "proper", dedicated CSAR assets to support combat operations as a result though. At the risk of going off at a massive tangent, the RAF needs to realise that it isn't going to be putting 1000 bomber raids over Dresden or fleets of C-47s over Normandy ever again. It should be specialising a LOT more; smaller, well equipped fleets, doing specialist jobs well. Just look at the USAF SpecOps community and things like their Pedro flights. Everyone bemoans the shrinking Air Force -it's a fact of life that we/they are stuck with. The "thinkers" out there should be rationalising and rethinking to produce Force Elements that, although smaller, mange to punch well above their weight, technically and professionally. The RAF I left a year ago (and still have some involvement with) had become one with a thin veneer of glossy brochures and the odd "C17 delivers thing" news story, covering an actual reality of poor serviceability, patchy training, low morale, navel gazing, delayed projects and a level of bureaucracy that the Indian Railways would envy. Until someone instigates a proper Defence Review (not the money based horse**** of the last one) then bits of the military infrastructure, like SAR, will chipped away and bodged over, making the edifice creak ever louder. Told you it was a massive tangent. And I still think Stuffy is a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist. :hmm: |
At the risk of going off at a massive tangent, the RAF needs to realise that it isn't going to be putting 1000 bomber raids over Dresden or fleets of C-47s over Normandy ever again. It should be specialising a LOT more; smaller, well equipped fleets, doing specialist jobs well. Just look at the USAF SpecOps community and things like their Pedro flights. Everyone bemoans the shrinking Air Force -it's a fact of life that we/they are stuck with. The "thinkers" out there should be rationalising and rethinking to produce Force Elements that, although smaller, mange to punch well above their weight, technically and professionally. |
If you want to label me a conspiracy theorist. Well that's up to you.
I have studied the subject, clearly you have not. Have you not heard of Blackwater or Halliburton? |
basically the Treasury don't want to spend a small fortune up front on a new set of helicopters for SAR
i'm sure Bristow's will be effective and just as professional - after all the Lifeboat service is run by volunteers and no one complains about their service and the Bristow's crews will be full-time and not looking at a move to a desk job in Whitehall as part of their future career path really Military SAR is a hangover from 1940-44 - you could never call it a core competency or really that necessary for the military function - almost all SAR flights these days are to pull civilians out of a hole or (more likely) off a mountain and Stop start is correct about a lot of things |
How often in the last few years has Mil SAR been required to support purely Mil purposes (e.g. pick up of crew etc). Genuine question here - my impression is that its vastly more used for civvy purposes than Mil.
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PG with the demise of the aircrewman diver, in the Fleet air Arm. SAR at fixed wing flying stations(plane guard) on the new flat tops, will not be fit for purpose:oh:
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Halliburton CG |
Thankfully Royal Navy SAR operations will remain in service. Wildcat, Lynx and Merlin crews will be SAR trained.
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Can I have a pint of whatever Stuffy is drinking?
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Whilst it is a sad day for the RAF, in the RN FAA it will be business as almost usual. SAR is an inherent part of FAA RW operations and all crews are trained in it. The alert RN SAR at CU and PW will go but you can bet that it won't be too long before a Merlin is airborne on a rescue at CU.
Re Plane Guard - that went out with the old ARK, none of the CVS Harrier carriers ran a plane guard system, although they probably had a duty SAR cab - as does every Frigate and Destroyer with its Lynx or Merlin. One interesting note is that almost no civilian SAR units have ever won awards for daring rescues (ie Maisie Lewis award, GAPAN awards etc) it has always been the military who seem to have gone out in the most diabolical of conditions. |
One interesting note is that almost no civilian SAR units have ever won awards for daring rescues (ie Maisie Lewis award, GAPAN awards etc) it has always been the military who seem to have gone out in the most diabolical of conditions. Said without taking anything away from the sterling job performed by our own SAR boys of course. |
I wonder how risk adverse Bristows will be in the event of severe weather etc. For example will they be trained in working in white out conditions, very relevelant given the current conditions in parts of England. I wonder was the RAF allowed to quote for the contract.
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An amazing amount of ignorance on this thread and some serious naivety too. If you take the trouble of looking on the Rotorheads forum to read up on anything to do with Helicopters, all your questions will be answered.
However, to speed that process up: Bristows are steeped in SAR. The facility is in very good hands. To question the capabilities of civvy SAR crews is crass, incompetent and above all ignorant. They have been doing it for decades and many are ex mil. RAF MRS is NOT going.......................yet Same with the ARCC. Mil SAR is way past its shelf life. Recent stats going back years, show their recoveries are predominently 97% civvy based. Mil SAR crews dream of downed mil aircrew! RN SAR will continue as normal. Theirs is a secondary role...always has been always will be. All RN crews are SAR capable, it's just that the RAF made it an empire. Future RN SAR will be covered by Lynx/Merlin. The new SAR cabs are faster, cheaper, stronger, safer, more reliable. The old SK was 1:10hrs ratio of airborne to downtime. The S92 is 1: 4. Each current RAF SAR base houses 20-30 engineers. The new bases will have 6-8 engineers because that is all that is needed. Mil SAR is not a war billet. There is no room in the new lean fighting machine for a respite squadron(s). Medals for the civvies? Could be down to the fact that they don't have admin officers / bureaucrats whose sole aim in life is to award LS and GC medals. Could be down to civvies having tighter safety rules (CAA) than the mil (who still be its very nature has the word "attrition" in its dictionary). Could be down to lack of PR reps in the civvy world. Definitely NOT down to avoiding "diabolical conditions". This is a 21st century capability designed and futureproofed for a 21st century Britain - embrace it. Almost ALL of the new pilots required to make this work will be the ex SAR drivers/crewmen. Win, win. [I am NOT a Bristow employee :)] |
We all knew SAR was going out to contract and the SK was bowing out after sterling service.
I have the greatest respect for all the SAR operators civil, RN and RAF but the current system does look tired and out of date (which makes what they do look even more impressive!). I cannot see a reason to justify mil SAR in the UK, ISTR a serviceman cost £100,000 per year (or something like that) and our organisation has huge inertia, lack of ownership, an unhealthy make do attitude (that for some reason is short sighted seen as a quality) and other distractions like shrinking budgets and wars. I'm sure similar fears of lack of cover and capability have been raised every time a new SAR type came in to service or a basing decisions was made. TBH this contract seems sensible, bases optimised (not just where we have a mil airfield), modern platforms and a known fixed cost. Although I did read that CHC thought it was too low? U.K. SAR Helo Program Down To Two Bidders Out of interest did the Mil SAR guys have any mil tasking? If so what will happen to that or are we going on another 'holiday'? Does this contract have any link to SAR-H or did that die? Wasn't there talk of mixed civil/mil crews and some non 24hr bases and a cost of £6Bn? If you had a blank sheet of paper for SAR cover what would you do differently? |
Dysonsphere. Don't ask Bristow's that question; ask their Insurers. In many cases these days, they are the ones that make the rules. There again, maybe HM Govenment is indemnifying them as they do with Service assets.
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On another note, the demise of the military SAR element surely places things like military Mountain Rescue Teams at some risk of extinction also.
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Apologies if this has already been asked, but what will happen to the ARCC? Any takers?
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An amazing amount of ignorance on this thread and some serious naivety too. The new SAR cabs are faster, cheaper, stronger, safer, more reliable. |
Could someone enlighten me as to what will happen to CSAR?
Are there plans to 'deploy' civvie SAR units at all? TC Are you saying that 6 - 8 engineers can keep a fleet of two (civvie) helicopters airworthy 24/7?? That is an astonishing feat if they can Winco |
RN SAR will continue as normal.
Time for a certain Flight Lieutenant to look out his dark blue suit?:) Jack |
In 1935 we didn't think we would be launching any 1000 bomber raids either, we didn't even have a hundred of them and zero capable of any long range work...never say never....
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