Absolutely, and I don't have a problem with any of what you have said. The only problem being that by taking SAR out of the military, what you are essentially suggesting is that the military should concentrate on a small cadre of CSAR / JPR specialists if we want to maintain such a rescue capability. Whilst small specialist teams are great, and often have an output far in exccess of their size and theoretical capabilties, they are also horrendously expensive. And having been around when we validated the JPR capability on Merlins and almost the next day put it into abayance for lack of funding, I just don't see the RAF ever recapitalising its rescue capabilties in any meaningful and substantive way once SAR is gone. No JPR, no mil SAR, no Nimrod; God help us if we ever find we need to do more than rescue an overweight walker in flip flops from Ben Nevis.

If you want to label me a conspiracy theorist. Well that's up to you.

I have studied the subject, clearly you have not.

Have you not heard of Blackwater or Halliburton?

basically the Treasury don't want to spend a small fortune up front on a new set of helicopters for SAR

i'm sure Bristow's will be effective and just as professional - after all the Lifeboat service is run by volunteers and no one complains about their service and the Bristow's crews will be full-time and not looking at a move to a desk job in Whitehall as part of their future career path

really Military SAR is a hangover from 1940-44 - you could never call it a core competency or really that necessary for the military function - almost all SAR flights these days are to pull civilians out of a hole or (more likely) off a mountain

and Stop start is correct about a lot of things

How often in the last few years has Mil SAR been required to support purely Mil purposes (e.g. pick up of crew etc). Genuine question here - my impression is that its vastly more used for civvy purposes than Mil.

PG with the demise of the aircrewman diver, in the Fleet air Arm. SAR at fixed wing flying stations(plane guard) on the new flat tops, will not be fit for purpose:oh:

Makers of Vitamin C pills?

CG

Thankfully Royal Navy SAR operations will remain in service. Wildcat, Lynx and Merlin crews will be SAR trained.

Can I have a pint of whatever Stuffy is drinking?

Whilst it is a sad day for the RAF, in the RN FAA it will be business as almost usual. SAR is an inherent part of FAA RW operations and all crews are trained in it. The alert RN SAR at CU and PW will go but you can bet that it won't be too long before a Merlin is airborne on a rescue at CU.

Re Plane Guard - that went out with the old ARK, none of the CVS Harrier carriers ran a plane guard system, although they probably had a duty SAR cab - as does every Frigate and Destroyer with its Lynx or Merlin.

One interesting note is that almost no civilian SAR units have ever won awards for daring rescues (ie Maisie Lewis award, GAPAN awards etc) it has always been the military who seem to have gone out in the most diabolical of conditions.

Bismark - or is it that the civvies just get on with the job without any self publicity or writing each other up for career progression?

Said without taking anything away from the sterling job performed by our own SAR boys of course.

I wonder how risk adverse Bristows will be in the event of severe weather etc. For example will they be trained in working in white out conditions, very relevelant given the current conditions in parts of England. I wonder was the RAF allowed to quote for the contract.

An amazing amount of ignorance on this thread and some serious naivety too. If you take the trouble of looking on the Rotorheads forum to read up on anything to do with Helicopters, all your questions will be answered.
However, to speed that process up:

Bristows are steeped in SAR. The facility is in very good hands. To question the capabilities of civvy SAR crews is crass, incompetent and above all ignorant. They have been doing it for decades and many are ex mil.

RAF MRS is NOT going.......................yet Same with the ARCC.

Mil SAR is way past its shelf life. Recent stats going back years, show their recoveries are predominently 97% civvy based. Mil SAR crews dream of downed mil aircrew!

RN SAR will continue as normal. Theirs is a secondary role...always has been always will be. All RN crews are SAR capable, it's just that the RAF made it an empire. Future RN SAR will be covered by Lynx/Merlin.

The new SAR cabs are faster, cheaper, stronger, safer, more reliable.

The old SK was 1:10hrs ratio of airborne to downtime.
The S92 is 1: 4.
Each current RAF SAR base houses 20-30 engineers. The new bases will have 6-8 engineers because that is all that is needed.

Mil SAR is not a war billet. There is no room in the new lean fighting machine for a respite squadron(s).

Medals for the civvies? Could be down to the fact that they don't have admin officers / bureaucrats whose sole aim in life is to award LS and GC medals. Could be down to civvies having tighter safety rules (CAA) than the mil (who still be its very nature has the word "attrition" in its dictionary).
Could be down to lack of PR reps in the civvy world.
Definitely NOT down to avoiding "diabolical conditions".

This is a 21st century capability designed and futureproofed for a 21st century Britain - embrace it.

Almost ALL of the new pilots required to make this work will be the ex SAR drivers/crewmen. Win, win.

[I am NOT a Bristow employee :)]

We all knew SAR was going out to contract and the SK was bowing out after sterling service.

I have the greatest respect for all the SAR operators civil, RN and RAF but the current system does look tired and out of date (which makes what they do look even more impressive!). I cannot see a reason to justify mil SAR in the UK, ISTR a serviceman cost £100,000 per year (or something like that) and our organisation has huge inertia, lack of ownership, an unhealthy make do attitude (that for some reason is short sighted seen as a quality) and other distractions like shrinking budgets and wars.

I'm sure similar fears of lack of cover and capability have been raised every time a new SAR type came in to service or a basing decisions was made. TBH this contract seems sensible, bases optimised (not just where we have a mil airfield), modern platforms and a known fixed cost. Although I did read that CHC thought it was too low? U.K. SAR Helo Program Down To Two Bidders

Out of interest did the Mil SAR guys have any mil tasking? If so what will happen to that or are we going on another 'holiday'?

Does this contract have any link to SAR-H or did that die? Wasn't there talk of mixed civil/mil crews and some non 24hr bases and a cost of £6Bn?

If you had a blank sheet of paper for SAR cover what would you do differently?

Dysonsphere. Don't ask Bristow's that question; ask their Insurers. In many cases these days, they are the ones that make the rules. There again, maybe HM Govenment is indemnifying them as they do with Service assets.

On another note, the demise of the military SAR element surely places things like military Mountain Rescue Teams at some risk of extinction also.

Apologies if this has already been asked, but what will happen to the ARCC? Any takers?

Feeling brave are we?

And of course you can quantify all those points with hard evidence? And whilst the cabs themselves may be cheaper, is the overall capability cheaper? Like it or not, contractorisation only appears to be cheaper on paper; when you want them to do something slightly out of the ordinary, then the costs suddenly sky rocket.

Could someone enlighten me as to what will happen to CSAR?
Are there plans to 'deploy' civvie SAR units at all?

TC Are you saying that 6 - 8 engineers can keep a fleet of two (civvie) helicopters airworthy 24/7??

That is an astonishing feat if they can

Winco

RN SAR will continue as normal.

Time for a certain Flight Lieutenant to look out his dark blue suit?:)

Jack

In 1935 we didn't think we would be launching any 1000 bomber raids either, we didn't even have a hundred of them and zero capable of any long range work...never say never....