Poor guys, never stood a chance
 

Syrian Helicopter downed

http://cdnvideos.telegraph.co.uk/NhN...geo_country=GB

Syrian helicopter reportedly downed by rebels over Idlib - World News

What is wrong with Islam, in that they seem to be unable to negotiate without resorting to violence?

Why "poor guys"? They are military, carrying ordinance by the look of that explosion to use on the rebels that shot them down. They weren't thinking "Poor guys" when they use that ordinance.

AA
 

I see your point but they were just following orders like every other soldier is when he does bad things. It's not their fault that their Generals (and politicians) are a bunch of nutjobs.
Despite the fact I think the Syrian regime have completely lost the plot, it's still a shame when fellow aviators are killed.
BV:(

Hmm, the Nuremberg (or 'Superior Orders') Defence.

Very sticky ground and one where an individual has to weigh up which is more serious, possible breach of national law (for refusing an order) or possible breach of international law (for carrying out an order).

I agree Helpful Stacker (we had a similar discussion about the rights and wrongs of 'following orders' in a previous thread relating to the shooting down of a Syrian helicopter).

Out of interest, is it not national law to disobey an unlawful order?

Yup - I'd call that a kill.

That looked like a fairly high shot. Anyone know what the missile was? Have they got some decent SAMs?

Why? Because he has compassion for fellow human beings.

Crikey. At first I thought this was another view of the shootdown seen last month, but when I saw the end result this clearly is a new event.

That was quite some explosion, much bigger than I would expect from a manpad (of which I could see no trail) or fuel tanks going up. If it was ordnance on the aircraft cooking off then what the hell were the carrying.

It's sometimes quite difficult to tell who are the goodies and who are the baddies in conflicts like this, but regardless I think most military aviators have a level of mutual respect even across lines of conflict, and so yes, poor guys. As an ex RW mate, that was pretty horrible to watch.

I said poor guys because regardless of beliefs or sides at the end of the day they are fellow human beings who for what ever reason are caught up in a war and their final moments in that must have been horrific. He almost made it.

Yep - the last few moments of the crew must have been unbelievably terrifying. Whilst not defending their actions supporting the Assad regime, it was still a pretty horrible way to go. Not nice.

I am trying to figure out whether or not he was in control of the aircraft as he descended. Main rotor seems to be turning, likely (if a MANPAD is what got him) weapon impact was aft of, or in the aft portion of the cabi.

I base this on where the smoke seemed to be coming out.

(Was engine on the right side shot off? Was it on fire? Spiraling flight path makes it hard to figure out. Were both engines hit?)

Was he flying in a circle in the belief that he'd be dodging missiles (or a further missile?) on the way down?

Was the pilot hit? Was there damage to the control linkage?

Was his tail rotor no longer providing anti torque (i/e severed shaft/cables/servos)?

Was he trying to autorotate down?

A lot of flying questions that the explosion rendered moot rather suddenly.

As an ex-helo jock, that one hits rather close to home.

I do hope none of the debris hurt anyone on the ground - unless it was Assad's lot.

I suspect the 'final moments in that' were pretty short-lived. Good way to go.

Who are the 'poor guys'?

Are they the ones raining down terror or the civilians?

Answers on a postcard.

Good grief.

Hips are used firing rockets in previous videos on YouTube. Probably cooked off.

I suspect the pilot had the choice of obey an illegal order or your family gets shot, you get shot, then we send someone else anyway.

There's nothing civil about civil wars.

Hear, hear!

Cool smoke ring!

I love the way everybody thinks the FSA are great and aren't a bunch of islamist terrorists in the making (or made) :ugh:

Some of the FSA videos online are little better than the ****e AQ put out.

Avitor,

Why on earth single out Islam. Are you aware of Christian history? Pretty bloody stuff.

Probably the fuel tank exploding? See following footage of Syrian Mi-8 with internal fuel tank visible.

'wot they run on LPG or summat?

Nice, no uniform and a machine gun.

I believe they hung "irregulars" during the war of independence...:hmm:

Negative. They hanged them. I was hung in my youth, but fortunately never hanged.

Wonderful out-pouring of grief. But let's not get too sentimental about the bad guys. They are fighting a civil war now. This is what war means.

Why not?.... and Yes. :cool:

Do we really know who the bad guys are? The secular government (who were far from perfect) or the FSA which is slowly being taking over as an Jihadi/Islamist extremist group? The FSA are a whole pandoras box of problems waiting to explode...

The choppers have been chucking dustbin loads of TNT out. No subtlety, just IEDS from the air. Hunt around and you can find pics of some of them which did not explode.

My guess is that one of those went off inside the chopper.

That would explain quite a bit.

As to "good guys and bad guys" I think some of you miss the point.

This is a civil war, about as uncivil an undertaking as there is. All emerge from that bloody handed.

As I see it, there are no good guys in this fight.

Assad is, no doubt about it, an autocrat and a despot. He's got blood on his hands, as Saddam did in Iraq. He's also, like Saddam was, in charge of a regime that is, believe it or not, more likely to allow for a diverse society (multi ethnic, multi cultural, multi creed) to thrive than many of the Islamists who are fighting him. So long as he's in charge, of course, as is the case with most despots.

No good guys in that crowd, gentlemen.

But go ahead and root for his opponents. I am sure you'll be overjoyed to see Syria become the next Iraq, the next Lebanon, and the next Libya.

The Arab Spring's crop is a red harvest. Enjoy your meal.

I agree with downsizer and Lonewolf on this one. I sometimes wonder just what Cameron and Hague are hoping will come of this? Sadly I don't think it will be any form of western-leaning multi-cultural, secular society. The FSA aren't the good guys in this, anymore than the Assad regime; it is a civil war and we would be best to stay out.

And yes it too felt sorry for the helicopter crew although probably better to go that way than at the hands of the FSA.

Can anyone else see the chute attempting to deploy bottom left ........ or is it the old floaters again?

I think that's a blade with part of the rotor assembly still attached. It's moving way too fast to be a 'chute.

Accompanied by the standard war cry-'allaha akbar'.Yep God is great.

S'funny how some people get all dewy-eyed when 'fellow aviators' are involved, as if they some how are more deserving of our sympathy by virtue of the fact they share a
common vocation. Sure, they may be killing civilians but hey, give them a break, they're doing it from several thousand feet from a helicopter.

Killing islamists. Have no problem with that personally.

Anyone remember this?

I certainly do.

I can also remember seeing graphic videos of what AQ did to chechens loyal to russia and news articles of them having drilled holes in prisoners heads in Iraq.

Quite frankly, a bit of TNT on a parachute pales into insignificance really doesnt it?

I'm not particuarly dewy eyed.Just the allu chanting makes me question their credentials.Seems to be an all purpose mantra for all kinds of savagery for some groups-decapitations,IEDs et al.Western politicians don't seem to make the link.

Where is this ally's snack bar ? Must be good everyone seems to shout about it :ok:

Branches all over the middle east ! Tempted to say the Midlands but thought better of it :=

You'll falafel if you eat there ...

Hat, coat, exit ... hell, two minute minor, into the penalty box with me! :=

I strongly tend to agree.
I think the trail you see in the video might be fuel. Possibly pouring out of the aft ramp. The explosion pressure wave only seems to be as big as the fiireball, this too me points to a combustible liquid / vapor explosion rather than HE stuff.

Therefore I don't think it was hit a second time by a missile. Also no trail and too big / fiery of an explosion for a MANPAD or RPG..

henra

I agree, that didn't look like an HE explosion to me either,
very much like a fuel explosion.
.

henra, thanks.

Makes good sense, the way you have explained it. :ok: