Air Attaché Oslo Andover?
 

Towards the end of the Cold War I was stationed at Gutersloh, and seem to recall an Andover from Norway as a frequent visitor, possibly to pick up cheap booze from the air terminal NAAFI store (and obviously more official duties) I think it was possibly attached to the Air Attaché in Oslo?

If true, I'm curious as to why he had this particular runaround?

XS637 was the AFNorth Andover until about 94. As much as anything, I think the the main men were brits.

Duty free was available at Kolsass.

Think I'm right in saying that the Air Attache Oslo had the last operational RAF DC3/Dakota up until the mid 60s. I assume the Andover was its replacement.

Up until 1994, the Northernmost Nato Command was AFNorth at Kolsas (Oslo). The CinC was always a Brit, with a German deputy and the Andover was at the CinC's disposal.

I believe the Andover was hangared at Gardemoen, and indeed when we broke down there in a Canberra T17 in the winter of 83 or thereabouts we made use of the same hangar.

Yes this was CINC North's taxi during my time in AirBaltap (Karup) in the late 70's. One of my current neighbours was one of the pilots, he can no doubt provide more info if you need it.

Off thread, but only a little: the last Dakota in RAF service, leaving aside ZA947 with the BBMF, was KN671, which was assigned to CinC AFNorth until finally pensioned off in 1971 and replaced by the Andover. (I stand open to correction on both serial number and year, but think I am right.)

My father, Flt Lt Bill Setterfield, was posted to Oslo during 1954-57 to fly the AFNorth Dakota. As far as I can tell from his logbooks, aircraft and crew were nominally on the strength of 30 Sqn although the squadron was mainly equipped with Valettas at that time.

The aircraft throughout my father's posting was another Dakota IV, KJ994. It was in VIP fit, with six swivelling leather armchairs to the rear of the cabin and more modest accommodation forward. Despite the VIP role only one pilot was assigned. For take-off and landing the radio operator occupied the right hand seat and worked the flaps and undercarriage. Presumably, in the event of pilot incapacitation, it would also have been the radio op's responsibility to get the valued passengers back onto terra firma. Elfin safety through the prism of half a century...

KJ994 was flown back to the UK twice a year for servicing, rather than have it done by SAS or the RNoAF which might have been sensible. On these twice-yearly trips the families of the crew were permitted to indulge. And so it came about that, as an impressionable 8/9/10-yr-old lad, I spent quite a few mesmerised hours in the right hand seat of KJ994, stooging to and fro across the Norwegian skerries, North Sea and
East Anglia en route between Fornebu and Northolt. What other career could there be but to fly, but alas short sight and long spine got in the way of that.

Some time in the late 70s I wrote to the RAF Museum to ask about KJ994's eventual fate, and was told that it was recorded as "struck off charge Near East, 1962". No other details. In the 1990s a French-based Dakota carried RAF roundels and the serial "KJ994", but I suspect that was spurious. If any PPRuNer has recollections of 994 I'd be delighted to hear them. Photos would be even better!

KJ994
 

KJ994,

it seems that you were scrapped at Northolt in 1963.

The one operating in France in the 90s has 'been about a bit' to say the least - USA, UK, France, Central African Republic, back to France ...
When it was in the UK it was civil, but did serve with the RAF as WZ984 (anyone got *that* in their log-book?).

As regards KN671, I have some conflicting information about it crashing in South Africa in 1948!


Ooh, according to Timeline Index 4_P the last RAF Dakota was retired on 4th April 1970.

Thanks GN, no wonder I'm feeling a bit ragged.

Okay, a little bit more, but drifting away from the original thread ...

According to National Cold War Exhibition at Royal Air Force Museum Cosford they have the last RAF Dakota on display - it's KN645, and they have it's full history on their website.

Several "stars" marked their leaving Brampton in about 87 or 88 by flying over the HQ in a Dakota, presumably from Boscombe Down. Their final guest night was marked by the flying of many polystyrene Tucani

Thanks KJ994 for confirming what I suggested in Post #4. Glad to find out I didnt dream it!

So, back in 1994 senior Air Officers had their own allocated aircraft?

Whereas nowadays, not even an Air Chief Marshal is entitled to travel First Class on the train, I understand.....:uhoh:

Never mind, Beags, he'll soon be getting free tube travel (in uniform of course), if Boris get his way. Can't wait to be sitting next to a four star on the tube and asking him if he's on his way to his shift outside the Ritz!

IIRC one of the navs on 30 Sqn (68-70), Alan Barker, had spent his first tour in Aden flying on a Dakota with the comm' sqn, 66-67.

My late father-in-law was a 'boffin' at Farnborough and again IIRC he went to Kemble in early '73 to see if a Dak they had there was suitable to be used at Farnboro' on some trial he was involved with. I'm sure it was found suitable and it was moved there from Kemble.

If Boris gets his way Air Orifices will proceed on bicycle, in uniform of course, their crash helmets adorned in scrambled egg.

brakedwell:

If Boris gets his way Air Orifices will proceed on bicycle, in uniform of course, their crash helmets adorned in scrambled egg. .......

...... not to mention the bicycle clips. Can't have the No 1 trouser legs getting caught in the chain.

Air Attaché Oslo Andover?
 

"...... not to mention the bicycle clips. Can't have the No 1 trouser legs getting caught in the chain."

Would that be the "chain of command"?
:rolleyes:

In the early 60's KP208 was the Oslo machine and it came back to Northolt for service about twice a year. I once asked why they didn't have a Valleta up there and was told that it would never start in the Winter with the sleeve valve engines??

The Avro would seem to have been a much better move.

Speedbird 48.

Surely it was the CinC's aircraft not the air attaché. RAF crew.

Allied Forces Northern Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Correct. Ex-32 Sqn crew.

Me, DXB in the middle of the night on the way back to Bots - bored :( EK 1 hr late but champers OK.

We looked after XS637 at Northolt from late 1975 prior to which it was the hack for C in C AFNORTH and based in Oslo. It wasn't kitted out quite as fancy as the CC2s XS791, XS792 and XS794, and had a stretcher conversion kit that could turn it into an air ambulance in an hour or so.

In 32 squadron service it was often used to ferry fresh fish and kippers from Benbecula and tomatoes from Guernsey. It wasn't much use for proper VIP transport.

US State Department is still flying DC-3s...

10 Ass-Kicking Warplanes You’ve Never Heard Of

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/wp-c...enciotti_0.jpg

Diplomatic Air Force

Special Operations Command isn't the only organization that requires an anonymous, dependable transport for flying in and out of war zones. The U.S. State Department operates 70-year-old Douglas DC-3 cargo planes in support of its far-flung diplomatic outposts in such places as Libya and Iraq.

Upgraded with new engines, the World War II-era DC-3s still aren't very fast -- 150 miles per hour or so -- but they can take off and land pretty much anywhere. A DC-3 was on call to support Christoper Stevens, the U.S. ambassador to Libya, in the months before he was killed in a September terror attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi.

The ancient but effective transports are part of the little-known Department of State Air Wing, which possesses 230 aircraft and, according to aviation journalist David Cenciotti, performs missions including "reconnaissance and surveillance operations, command and control for counter-narcotics operations, interdiction operations, logistical support, medical evacuation [and] personnel and cargo movement by air."

That DC3 brings back memories of seeing it in an interesting airport in a fun part of the world. I've got some cracking photos of it somewhere.

Its an original 1940s vintage aircraft, albeit heavily upgraded since then!

Wow. Interesting that HS Andover XS 637 ended up in Norway.
I claimed that one for myself.
With the skipper Jock Thomson and nav Gary Barber, I picked up that aircraft from the makers at Woodford on 14th March 1967 and then flew it to Seletar, Singapore arriving 29th March to reform no 52 squadron.
route - Abingdon, Istres, Luqa, Benina, Akrotiri, Baghdad, Muharraq, Masirah, Bombay, Calcutta, Bangkok, Seletar.
Apart from the food poisoning (Bombay) it was a great experience.

Cosford are correct with KN645. According to Putnam's Aircraft of the Royal Air Force it was the RAF's last Dakota, based at Oslo, and was retired on 1 April 1970.

http://www.abpic.co.uk/images/images/1401029M.jpg

A bit of useless information but the entrance to the hangar was too low for the tail to go under. Some bright spark came up with the idea of a ramp for the nose wheel inside the hangar just at the point where the tail was about to go in which tipped the tail down and popped it back up when inside :ok:

Exascot:

Was it a moveable ramp, as it would no doubt have had the same problem exiting the hangar?

And can you imagine trying to get the authority to do something like that nowadays?

MtheM I'm can't be sure but I think it was movable. Had to put one of our 32 Sqn Andovers in there once to prevent it getting buried in snow. :eek:

John Major's King Air
 

Was and is there not a King Air used by the John Major HMG Commonwealth Office, and it was seen around my neck of the woods - Cambs since he was local MEP. Some folks say just after the airfield proportionate of RAF Alconbury was handed back to MoD and then into the commercial sector, that around 95/96 said King Air was seen in the actual airfield (prob to serve JM)

Though in one Air Forces Monthly published in 2009, they showed a pic of a white King Air belonging to the Commonwealth Office returning to UK to undergo maintenance with DO Systems.

W.R.T Andover, I had the pleasure at RAF Church Fenton on CCF camp, to meet the crew who flew in from Gatow back in April 1991. I was doing work experience in the Met Office on camp....nice bunch of guys, but think their unit was at Wildenwrath?

Cheers

I once hopped a lift from Gutersloh back to the UK aboard the Andover - and a very nice experience it was too!

On the subject of makeshift ramps, the MI-17 has the similar issue with the battery box on the bottom of the tail boom, which gets in the way if you're trying to fork cargo into it's back end (probably a better way of phrasing that) hence most LZ's in Afghanistan have a hole 8" deep for the nose wheel to run into.

ZK457

UK Serials

Used in Iraq then Afghanistan. Now returned to the civil register

M the M, If the ac were pushed in and pulled out, or vise versa, the ramp would not have to move!

When the Germans got the Tornado GR1 they had the same problem with their Gen 1 Hardened Aircraft Shelters (HAS). They used the same solution and it worked very well. Even in the modern era, sometimes simple solution can be utilised. The biggest problem is finding someone with the B**ls to sign ot off!

Dominator My only reason to think it was movable is because it wasn't a permanent bay for this aircraft.

Last Dakota/DC3 - I recall a multi starred retirement from Brampton in about 1987 or 1988 - the C in C (Sir john Sutton?), AOA and AN Other who all flew in a DC3 from Boscombe, so there must still have been one then. The Dining Out Night was marked by each of us having a little polystyrene Tucano to fly!

Interesting link for the 10 A$$ Kicking Warplanes on Oracs post :

Saw this over my head often around here on approach to EGUN :)

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...ps3cbe1e7d.jpg

Cheers

Ooer I'm liking that. I wants one.

That would be ZA947, now with the BBMF.

RAF BBMF - Dakota ZA947

So where do the aircrew for the Foreign Office and other "funnies" come from?

DO Systems supplied the King Air I beleive.