noprobs,
Whoever said that speed is life! Here's a story confirming the usefulness of VIFFing! This decription reminded of a story by a naval ace who said that the Harrier force always kept the advantage in exchanges with the Lightning force although of course the higher exchange ratio dropped as they moved from the unknown 1v1 phase to the "have seen what you can do" 1v1 phase through to many vs many sorties.

Thought the burnerless Lighntning even simulated the Argie Mirage 3 for the RAF Harrier force when they were practising at being interceptors in order to bolster task force interceptor numbers down south in '82. Having said that, reheat or not I bet the latter Mirage F1 was a handful in ACT.

ARXW - having Lightning'd and viffed a fair bit, 'Viffing' is excellent, yes, but in more than a 1v1 you can find yourself at a distinct disadvantage having nozzled away your IAS and being left as an almost 'stationary' target with no K E.

On Suffolk's phinest phighter squadron, we once did some ACT with FAF Mirage F1s after the Malvinas war, with the FAF simulating Matra 530 profiles...

We did the usual QWI-briefed stuff, they kept it simple. They won!

Nice jet, big engine, good radar and weapon system.....SSSETOWTF as I understand the saying goes!

Some years ago speaking with a bunch of Saudi Air Force F15 pilots, many who had flown the Lightning I asked which they preffered. The common consencus was the Lightning with the F15 weapon system.

This months Classic Aircraft magazine has a 6 page article on the U2 Lightning interceptions, if anyone is interested.

Ask one of our old F1 pilots about fighting against the phantom - they'll quickly dismiss it as: not a problem! (we used to have both, in fact we're still flying the phantom down in the south-eastern Med with all the latest gadgets on it). I imagine French M F1 would have had similar disdain for la phantom britannique (the Lightning that is)! The F1 had better T/W than the Mirage 3 but still compared to the mighty Lightning it was certainly lacking. Then again the phantom was also found lacking compared to the Lightning unless you want to talk about a very clean Spey jet.

talking about frightenings, how does this qualify?:

As a former SLEWC and Type 64 operator I seem to recall that we couldn't get automatic height read outs on the SLEWC from Lightnings, we had to call the HFR Operator and give him the range and bearing. However, my memory is etchy, but I do believe it was something like that.:}

FB:)

No Mode C on the Frightning, so all claimed infringements by civil jets could be handled by the correct turn of phrase when speaking to the pilot. e.g.

"22, Staxton, LATCC has claimed you got to close to his 747 at FL350, confirm you had separation?"

"Affirmative Staxton, good visual and not above FL340".

It was common in the last 6 months before Binbrook shut as every one tried to see how high they could get. Up to TTL6 or 8 then north followed by a high speed run south parallel to the coast and then a zoom climb before recovery. HF200 showed heights around 80K.

The most memorable was the response from the pilot who was heading towards the Aggressor Area and to whom I gave several avoiding turn instructions. After replying "Wait" in response to the first few, he eventual explained.

"Staxton, I would if I could, but I can't. I'm VFR above* and slowly toppling end over end and it's very, very quiet. When things start working again, I'll let you know".

*Top of the MRSA was either FL600 or FL660 at the time, can't remember when it changed.

Rather p*ssed of Midland Radar when I handed another off for recovery at the edge of the Dive Arc along the lines of "22, on recovery, VFR." It was only when he checked in they discovered he was VFR above. :E

I'm sure I met the chap in person at an airshow yonks ago: his name-tab on the growbag was "13G Fynes"

I was lucky enough to live near them as a child, they were awe inspiring and I spent much of my primary education looking out the windows....... needless to say I joined the RAF :ok:

ISTR there were concepts for a swing wing design and side intakes, anyone have more information? Also wasn't there a suggestion to fit 4 x AIM-9?

Ivan

I believe the 'swing wing' concept was proposed for a navalised version of the Lightning. It was not a conventional variable geometry wing such as the GR4 and F-111, but more variable geometry at the end of the wings (if that makes sense)....

Cheers
TO

The P3 was the proposed variant with the side intakes, The variable geometry proposal doesn't appear to have a number.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1...d/Untitled.jpg

Back in 1984 I was on an ATC camp at Binbrook.My AEF was flown by an 11 Sqn pilot-quite an experience for a jet obsessed 14 year old.He admonished me for staring at the artificial horizon instead of looking outside.Apparently I'd 'get away with it at Woodvale but round here you're likely to get a Lightning up your arse'.Best flight I ever had-the poor Chippy was hurled all around the sky.

Anyway that year was a significant Lightning anniversary (30 years).As such there was a celebratory airshow at Binbrook.The Lightning prototype was on static and as we overflew prior to landing he banked above it,looked down and said 'ugly bugger at first wasn't she '?

Love to do it again.I'd mither him senseless instead of being an awestruck teenager :)

That swing wing design looks similar to the Fitter C. That design avoided the need for modification to the undercarriage.

Drifting still further off thread down memory lane.....

The talk of Mirage F1 capabilities reminds me of a HUD film I saw on Maple Flag years ago. One of our JPs was seeing how low he dared fly down a fire break between the trees when he had a bit of a fright, the reason for which he sought to demonstrate on his film. Careful examination showed a single frame with the side view of an F1's fin in the bottom of the picture. The F1 was being flown with Gallic flair along a crossing fire break, just a little lower than our JP's jet.

Not a pilot (unfortunately), but at airshows you just had to see the Lightning, Red Arrows (Gnats) and the Vulcan.

Used to see demented Phantom pilots hurtling around, awesome, but they could never quite match the turning circle of the big cigar tube.

Lots of really good stuff flying about, but the big 3 were always the 'must see' shows.

As a Flight Staff Cadet on 12AEF in the late 70s I flew a number of times in the Chipmunk with Wg Cdr Colin Bidie, a former Boss of 56 Squadron. On one flight I recall we tried to emulate the display he used to do in the Lightning, didn't quite have the vertical penetration though.

Great people, happy days.

Last Lightning Solo Display - RIAT 1987
 

I thought some might enjoy this - the last Lightning solo display at RIAT 1987. Flown by the then Flt Lt Jon Fynes (perhaps of 13G fame mentioned earlier ?) who went on to be Gp Capt Fynes, Commandant of CFS.

I was around for the Akrotiri self hack. The pilot shot the wheel off the banner which went down the intake and trashed an engine. He limped home on the other engine which gave out on short finals where the pilot punched out and landed on base. The SAR crew were a little peeved as it was a land on recovery, well not many wet winching jobs out there. The jet ended up close to the main gate in a farmers mandra, he was happy as he could see pound signs in the sky.

Later that day in the bar, the pilot sporting a rather fat lip was in conversation with the Station Commander who was after a Lightening as Gate Guard. "Well Sir, I got it as close as I could". Makes a good story.:ok:

Heads down, look out for the flack

19 Sqn Lightning F2s Relocate To RAF Gutersloh 1965
 

Pathe News item from 1965 - there is an ad first but it's a better copy than the one on You Tube.

LIGHTNINGS TO GERMANY - British Pathé

Commentary by Mr Cholmondley-Warner !