CAA Military Accreditation
 

Don't suppose if anyone knows when Part O (Credits for Military Pilots) of CAP 804 is due to be released? It seems to have gone all deep and silent.

Many thanks.

7 Sep wasn't it?

Many thanks.

Have just had the joy of having to delve into it - the date has been put back to 17 Sep 12 from 1 Jul 12. Here is a link:

CAP 804: Flight Crew Licensing: Mandatory Requirements, Policy and Guidance | Publications | About the CAA

Chaps,

The date of 17 Sept is when EASA licenses will be published under Part-FCL. It's my understanding that until then the old license type will be published but these will need to be renewed in 2014 (at a cost) off the top of my head.

Annex O to CAP 804, once published, will go straight into effect apparently and as such, people will be able to apply the credits found within. So, as soon as its out, you'll be able to open your CPL/ATPL and get cracking with you IR. Until then, the clock just keeps ticking and you can't do anything.

If I've got it wrong, please correct me as this is dear to my heart at the moment too.

SM.

CAP 804 Section 4 Part O
 

I am informed by those responsible, that CAP 804 will include Section 4 Part O 'Credits for Military Pilots' in the forthcoming amendment, which is due 'soon'.

But then again, so is the UK's summer......:\

As soon as I hear anything more definite, I will let people know.

Many thanks.:ok:

How long does it take to "cut and paste" from LASORS:{

Hoping its a bit better than LASORS. RAF rotary guys got a bit of a **** deal... 2000 hours flying multi-crew, multi-engine, VFR & IFR, full Procedural IR, operating in and out of civvy and military airfields anywhere from the UK to the Middle East might just get you a CPL if you ask nicely:ugh:

The new scheme will be published very shortly as amendment 1 to CAP 804. Do not expect a cut and paste from LASORS - the old QSP scheme is well and truly dead.

Cheers for the info. Hopefully see something soon.

starbright, no problem. My contacts tell me that the amendment should go live on the CAA website within the next 10 working days. Keep an eye out! Some last minute glitches occurred (something to do with the AAC) but these have apparently been resolved.

It would be nice if the RAF rotary fleet got some recognition for having full procedural IRs unlike the RN and AAC.

Crab

Since the fixed wing guys never got any credit for IRs , why should the rotary?

The IR is Cash And Agros"s crown jewels. Nobody has ever been given any credit for it.

Go fly with exam xx, they are all ex mob anyway!

You can fly the IRE in the Service aircraft though to get an IR tick.

And you'll be able to under the new scheme.

Any chance they will take a mil green rating and grant equivalence without having to fly with the caa? But of a pipe dream I know....

Sadly, no chance. It's std stuff as it was before, ie CAA examiner flies in mil type on an IRT and awards civvy IR. It's a way of charging more for it, some would say. Others would argue it keeps the standards high. Bit of both is probably the case...

nice castle,

Where did you get that info from? I haven't seen any announcements yet. I'm hoping a CAA observed IR is the way forward. Strapping onto a Seneca would be expensive!

The MoD in their wisdom have stopped allowing civ IREs to fly in mil aircraft to grant civ IRs - frankly very petty!

That's because there hasn't been an official announcement yet! Some of us may have heard various snippets, but it would be rather stupid to come up with a "Well, I've heard....." type post at this stage - in case the CAA has decided not to accept some particular aspect or other.

Isn't the civil IRE restriction type-specific? In other words, if it isn't allowed to take passengers then (for some mindless reason), it isn't even allowed to take a civil IRE on the jump seat?

Yes, it is type specific, and I have yet to see the details about whether for RW the IR is flown 'single pilot' for the purposes of the test. As yet, details are sketchy, but the principle is in place.

As crab pointed out, the RAF can be pretty petty at times, but often rules disallowing this have been imposed at a local level, so are personality dependant and subject to change.

As Beagle pointed out, best to see what comes out in the wash, but felt it appropriate to let people know the rumour, this being a rumour network 'n all:ok:

I have C130J on my licence having taken a civvy IRE flying last year. Will a military IRT & Annual cat this year be sufficient to maintain the validity of my "civvy" C130J rating?

Never understood all this gumf. :E

Anybody got any updates on CAP 804???:rolleyes:

Anybody got any updates on CAP 804?
 

I will ask the appropriate folk at the CAA and let you know what they have to say.....

CAP 804 Section 4 Part O - Military Accreditation Scheme
 

beags you're a legend!!!
Thanks

I will post a link to the download as soon as CAP 804 incorporating Amendment 2012/01 is officially released on 27 Jul.

Many thanks! Help much appreciated.

CAP 804 Amendment 1
 

CAP 804 incorporating amendment 1 is now available for download at http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP804rfs.pdf

Military accreditation may be found in Section 4 Part O.

Please note that any queries should be directed to 22Gp, not the CAA!

Good news but a bit dissapointing that an A1 Tutor instructor on the staff of CFS will now only get a Restricted FI(A)? Please correct me if I have this wrong.

No H to A bridging either.

:(

1. There are no credits from any exams (except for the NPPL) for anyone.
2. There are no credits from any Skill Tests for anyone.

You will note that there is no accreditation for the FRTOL; this is an omission which has been highlighted to the relevant people.

Regarding the FI certificate, there is no such thing as a 'Restricted FI' - it is an FI certificate with privileges restricted under the terms of FCL.910.FI FI - Restricted Privileges. Whether these restrictions can be lifted at initial issue, provided that the requirements of para (c) have been met, is something you will need to ask 22 Gp.

RW pilots seeking FW licences will first need to obtain part-FCL helicopter licences, then follow the same FW to RW requirements (as indlciated in CAP 804 Section 4 part L) which apply to civil pilots.

IR revalidation appears to require that it may only be acceptable for pilots who have "a class or type for which they hold a valid aeroplane rating in the Part-FCL licence". So yes, if you happen to have a King Air or a TriStar in your licence, by my reading. Whether the C-130 is considered to be the same as the Lockheed 382, I couldn't say - ask 22 Gp! But since the VC10 is not an 'EASA' aeroplane, then no if that's what you've flown......

Clear as mud!
 

Had a read through - I hope I'm not the only one who thinks it's not very clear??

I'm due to leave next year and I've already got a CPL(H) but need to do an IR - as far as I can see there are no major changes to the credit available for QMP(H) with with regards to this?

I think I'll just go straight to the training provider for a distilled version!!!!

Thanks Beagle.

VigilantPilot, please read 3.8 again (Section 4 part O page 8):

"....the proficiency check was conducted by the holder of a Flight Examiner Certificate issued under Part-FCL"

If the military IRE holds such a certificate, entitling him/her to conduct proficiency checks on the class/type, then fine. Now try to find one.....

Morning all! Does anyone who has read this in depth have a quick answer about how quick/easy it will be to get a CPL(H) now for a QMP with 3500 hrs total flying (mainly RW) under the new regs? ie how many exams have to be sat and is there a skill test?

I will now start to plough my way through the document to see if I can work it out myself, but any simple answers appreciated!

See CAP 804 Section 4 Part D, Subpart 2 Page 2.

You will have to pass all the exams and pass the CPL(H) Skill Test, I regret to have to tell you, irrespective of your years of military RW flying....:mad:

Part O merely allows entry into the EASA system. Unlike the previous system, it does not recognise the 'Experienced QSP', so will be very unlikely to act as a recruiting or retention incentive. No longer will people bite the bullet to reach the old 2000 hr TT mark, if they have any aspirations for a second career, because there is no incentive to do so in licensing terms. Whether that will lead to erosion of experience in front-line squadrons will doubtless be a matter for MoD to consider.

But if, as a PPL Examiner, you bowled up to CFS do your A2 and the CFS A1 trapper didn't hold even a PPL, you could perhaps offer to let him/her take the PPL exams 'under the auspices' of your flying club......:hmm:

Awesome! Very happy to know that all those years of professionalism and training, as well as hard won experience, count for nothing then.

On the flip side, perhaps doing all the exams before entering the civvy world is not such a bad thing in terms of learning. Is the exam package going to RW based though or is it still going to be a bastardised (A) exam package I wonder....

Thanks Beags for the quick summary though!