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RAF CLUB
I have just received an email containing the following;
Civil Servants associated with supporting the Air Sector and the Royal Air Force are eligible to apply for Affiliate Membership of the RAF Club and would be welcomed if they sought to join. I suspect that this will upset a few of the us and them brigade! Philrigger |
We need more members to pay the rent. Will the usual rules apply about being proposed and seconeded by current members?
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On a point of detail the RAF Club owns the freehold of the premises, so no rent to pay, but I take your point - obviously huge overheads involved. There was a bit about this in the last club newsletter - they are obviously spreading the net wider.
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Courtney Mil
The email:
Sent on behalf of Air Mshl Sir Kevin Leeson, Chief of Materiel (Air): Dear Colleagues, At a time of considerable turbulence in our Civil Service manpower complement, I thought it might be worth reminding our Civil Service team (both those remaining in DE&S and those moving to pastures new) that our Civil Servants associated with supporting the Air Sector and the Royal Air Force are eligible to apply for Affiliate Membership of the RAF Club and would be welcomed if they sought to join. Full benefits are described on the website at home | RAF Club, London, but principally feature the use of a very nice club, spectacularly positioned in Central London with comfortable accommodation, good dining, sensible bar prices, like-minded clientele, a ‘distinct aviation atmosphere’ and highly competitive rates compared with the other clubs and hotels of the area. The joining fee is £134 with an annual subscription of £134. A double room is only £124 on a weekday night, less on the weekend. The Air Environment has many RAF Officers who are full members and would be happy to sponsor applications; I am certainly happy to support applicants. Please give this notion wide publicity in your Operating Centres. Philrigger. |
like-minded clientele But being slightly less flippant, how many of the CS working in Defence actually associate themselves with Defence and how many view what they do as just a job i.e. as long as the pay cheque comes in each month it doesn't matter whether its MOD or some QUANGO? It might appeal to those who come up to London relatively infrequently but need a bed down location for a day or 2, but I would then have to ask why would they go to the RAF Club when they have their own Civil Service Club in Whitehall with lower membership fees? |
I'm sure this will ellicit quite a reposne from some.................but I find it quite telling that the RAF would rather open up the RAF Club to the civil service than wider RAF use.
S-D |
Originally Posted by salad-dodger
(Post 7204035)
I'm sure this will ellicit quite a reposne from some.................but I find it quite telling that the RAF would rather open up the RAF Club to the civil service than wider RAF use.
S-D |
Even less chance of getting accommodation on my very rare visits to London. I am seriously considering cancelling membership after 33 years.
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Phil, you may have overlooked to survey that was offered last year. Other options included offering corporate membership to aviation related companies. They also suggested opening membership to our extended families.
Offering membership to civil servants is probably one of the least bad options. We already have many club exchange visitors in the club. |
Standby for a response from the BEAGLE:rolleyes:
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Further to my last, and having had a think about it, just how far does the CS invitation extend? Bearing in mind the raison d'etre of the Club is for individuals holding commissions, has a cut off point been set? Without wishing to sound snobbish, the Club needs to be careful not to alienate existing members.
Working on the CS - military equivalency scales, a D-grade CS would be entitled to join, which is fine in its own right. But the Club needs to keep in mind the lengthy and demanding process invovled in getting through the commissioning programme vice the fact that anyone can apply for a D-grade job regardless of personal qualities (for that read officer qualities) as long as they meet the competencies set out in the job description. Membership of the Club is, rightly, a privilege and one of the few perks of being awarded a commission. We would do well to remember that and keep a watchful eye on the balance of CS / Military rather than just opening the flood gates on financial grounds. |
Melchett, there is of course a Civil Service Club too which after a brief glimpse seems similar to the Union Jack etc. That would suggest a demarcation line.
I presume they would also need a proposer and seconder. The point about cost/benefit is well made. |
That clearly doesn't apply to the Civil Servants I work with who frankly frankly would struggle in a recce test to differentiate between a carrier pigeon and a C-130. But the Club needs to keep in mind the lengthy and demanding process invovled in getting through the commissioning programme vice the fact that anyone can apply for a D-grade job regardless of personal qualities (for that read officer qualities) as long as they meet the competencies set out in the job description. |
Priceless :D:D:D:D:D
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ratty,
Good point well made. Although I note your criticism seems to be more about my crap typing (happy to cough to that one) rather than the efficacy of the argument. So, if all you can contribute to the argument is to take snipe and take pot shots at other peoples' typing, I suggest you would probably feel more at home at Shrivenham than the RAF Club. Or maybe even the House of Commons; they seem to be quite good at spending all day dealing in ad hominem attacks without actually bringing anything positive to the table. Incidentally I guess it doesn't apply to current RAF Officers who quite frankly struggle with repeating words and getting involved in spelling some words |
Ratty,
Hooked a whopper there :D |
The Victory Services Club at Marble Arch has members from all services, commissioned and non commissioned.
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I do wonder that if they waived the Membership Fee, made Membership Numbers one's Service No. and reduced the rate to around £70 pppn whether use would increase? Many Service personnel need to overnight in London and to do so here at such a price would save money and keep current military associated with the Club in far greater numbers.
Keep the annual fee and all Officers are life members while they continue to pay. Revenue is constant because the deal is attractive. |
Surely you could take in DHSS referees, they tend to pay more than that for B and B to house them, you should be able to make a good profit... :E
I only ever went in the Union Jack club one and it reminded me of a YMCA... Never went back. |
Travel-lodge, 5 mins walk from Waterloo Station, one double room including TV, shower room etc was £30.00 (saver rate, no ability to cancel) when I stayed in London recently.
Clean room, comfortable bed. My wife and me were very happy with it. Why pay more? |
reduced the rate to around £70 pppn |
At present it is difficult to book the RAF Club for a duty stay through DHRS - moreover they don't quote a B&B rate and the single rooms are rather small. I'm a great supported of the RAF Club and try to use it as often as possible - but through DHRS I can stay in a good hotel in Kensington for slightly less.
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Malmaison with military discount £70 per night B&B in a lovely 4* hotel. Doesn't even compare to the RAF Club. I agree that DHRS is definitely the way forward for them. I am not a member, and to be honest, from the tours I have had, I do not really see what it offers me.
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With the continued reduction in the size of the RAF, and the general decline of mess life as such (many are like ghost ships these days), I wonder how the RAF club sees itself surviving in say 30 years time - or is it relying on squeezing as much money out of the few octogenarians who will still remain, like BEagle, as possible?
Out of interest, while discussing this thread with a (much younger) colleague at work the other day, he said that when he was going through IOT the students were "told" by the staff to sign the RAF Club application forms - that's one way of keeping the numbers up.....and least until they are sensible enough to leave of their own accord! Anecdotal I know, but no less valid for that.... |
Further to Rosevidney's post, I was talking to a chap at the recent V-Force Reunion who told me he had finally binned his RAF Club membership and had gone over to the United Services Club, which he reckoned was around £40 pa as opposed to £130 plus. As far as I'm concerned the main problem with the RAF club is the cramped size of the majority of its bedrooms, and thats a problem they can't fix. The Premier Inn room I stayed in recently was a palace by comparison, at half the cost.
I'd miss the Cowdray Room though. |
It may of course just be possible that JOs don't want to spend their weekends off with the ageing club membership in a dated bed and breakfast environment?
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I binned my membership of thirty years after being told off for not wearing a jacket and tie at breakfast. RAF club - an outdated hangout for geriatric air ranks and their admirers! :cool: The Cowdray room afternoon tea was good though and very 1950's in a nostalgic sort of way :D
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I was in the Club the other day and TBH it looked like the Sunshine Home for Aviators
Everyone under 45 was a member of staff they will have to open up the membership or it will disappear in 15 years |
Albert - that happened to me too, but to be fair it was in the late '80s. Things are more relaxed now.
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I go for the tea in the Cowray room not the bedrooms but I find the chairs very slippy, maybe so you slide off if you doze off.
The Running Horse is always consistent though. Cold, uncomfortable, and indifferent food. Sad that the other restaurant down there closed as the food there was always much better. |
Al-bert, that must have been a while ago...there are still more relaxed minima on trial, for example here Log In | Facebook
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I agree with Groucho Marx "I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members".
I exclude the 'Good Morning Chris Club' from that rule because I'm a member, no fees were involved and I don't have to attend an AGM:ok: R |
PN, that was the 'Buttery' and I certainly agree with you regarding the Ambling Nag.
I'm fine(-ish) with the rather small rooms for a night or two and breakfast is invariably superb, particularly now that the dress regs are more relaxed. However, the new trial dress regs, whilst welcome, do seem a bit complex to me - 'smart trousers (including chinos) a collared shirt (with or without a tie) and appropriate footwear' is OK in the Cowdray Room until 1830 but then it's 'smart trousers (not jeans), a collared shirt with tie and appropriate footwear' (no jacket required at this time of year). Does 'chinos' include 'jeans' - or does 'smart trousers' include 'chinos' after 1830....:\ So is the real difference a tie after 1830, or what? People draw comparisons with the Premier Inn. However, one is a club and the other a good value hotel. So you cannot really make a true comparison. But how to encourage more entitled folk to join is indeed a difficult question. |
LeggyMB...it was earlier this century I admit, but not so very long ago when you're my age! ;)
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I'm fine(-ish) with the rather small rooms for a night or two [Snip] Does 'chinos' include 'jeans' - or does 'smart trousers' include 'chinos' after 1830.... Just sayin'... ;) |
It may of course just be possible that JOs don't want to spend their weekends off with the ageing club membership in a dated bed and breakfast environment? ... any mess, anywhere in the UK.... :sad: |
AN,
I think you may have missed my point. JOs don't want to spend their free time in these environments. The dress regulations are over complicated and too formal for those that wish to use the Club when taking a weekend jaunt into London. From what I understand as well, too many of the members are made up of retired senior rank's children who are non-serving. Surely this can't be in the ethos of the club? Turn it into an all ranks RAF club just like the splendid VSC. Better to keep it service than to introduce honking civvies to bolster the membership. Out. |
To be fair to the Club, they are very forward-looking - and trying to anticipate the membership challenges of the years ahead.
Yes the club does seem to be the habitue of elder members, but on Fridays and Sundays there is an influx/outflux of young blades and their fruity girlfriends. They probably don't use the Dining Room or the Cowdray Room (or my favourite - the Library) but these areas do well during the week because of the elder members. By the way, Does anyone else get long, rambling emails for a retired Fg Off about declining standards at the Club? Perhaps it's one our members here? |
The dress regulations are over complicated and too formal for those that wish to use the Club when taking a weekend jaunt into London. Smart trousers (including chinos) or smart jeans (without rips or tears) a collared shirt (with or without a tie), clean trainers, sneakers and polo–neck sweaters. 'Polo neck sweaters' - good grief, how very Simon Dee! So, no T-shirts, sweatshirts or even polo shirts, it would seem. |
Simon Dee was, I think, a corporal photographer.
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