James Blunt: Britain's failure to get troops into battle (theatre) is pitiful
 

A one off or regular occurrence?

James Blunt: Britain's failure to get troops into battle is pitiful - Telegraph

The last sentence is very incisive - I think he has hit the nail on the head with that one.

A good article, making some important points. When will the politco's learn that wars fought on the cheap will end badly for the thrifty participant.

Selection and Maintenance of the Aim
Maintenance of Morale
Offensive Action
Concentration of Force
Economy of Effort
Sustainability

I have been selective.

Thing is though its a problem that could have been avoided if senior airforce officers had supported the transport fleet and insisted on a straight buy to replace the VC10/tristar fleet instead of wasting years trying to sort a contract out for a PFI.

His opinions are well-founded and well put. But I wonder why so many people in the entertainment business are suddenly becoming expert commentators on military and political affairs. At least James talks sense, though!

Given the reported unreliability of the current Air Transport system, one has to wonder why it is that the Voyager hasn't yet flown at Brize, let alone been used in the AT role.

Because of pfi, its probably much cheaper to pay for charter.

Oh, the irony of an air force having to charter civilian flights to move people around!

Maybe its time for the RAF's senior officers to be held accountable for the delays?

Beagle,

Am I right in thinking that the first Voyager is currently with Cobham having the refueling pods fitted? I thought it was due out this autumn.

Anyway, they can't fly it yet, it hasn't been put on the MoD website! :O

Courtney

Fortunately for the Voyager program, under the MAA it should be a lot easier to get new aircraft an RTS and into service on time.......

Actually I don't know whether many air forces do not need to charter civilian flights.

I know the USA used charter during the Vietnam war. The USAF has less than 100 passenger aircraft and almost 70 are Gulfstream and Learjet.

The FAF have 5.

The RAF inventory/aspiration is proportionately much larger than both. The historically large passenger capacity was needed to serve the various overseas air forces and garrisons. It was also needed to ship V-force engines around the world :} and fast freighters were rare 40 years ago.

With the expansion of the civilian transport market and the marked reduction in overseas garrisons the RAF could have gone for civil passenger charter in the 70s and certainly the 80s but at that point the VC10 was 'new' and the T* too.

I think I read that 'our' Voyager was at an airshow in the far east.
The RAF CAS wasn't allowed to get on it though! Wrong pass.
mmitch.

Courtney, there's been a Voyager KC2 at Brize since late December. But I don't think that it has flown yet...

There was indeed an A330MRTT in Voyager KC3 configuration at the Singapore Air Show:


But it hasn't yet been delivered. And yes, it seems that CAS was unfortunately denied admittance by the security people....:\ Bit of a c.ock-up, that.

Nurse

I'm not sure that the issue of PFI can be laid at our air masters' collective feet. PFI is something that was forced on MOD by a previous government driven particularly by the Treasury who also mandate what and what not has the funding to continue with its procurement path during each spending round debate each year. Most programme delays are caused by the Treasury withdrawing funding - take the Typhoon gun debacle as a prime example!

So whilst the Army (and the ex-Army in Blunt's case - I wonder if they took the p*ss out of him with that name when he was serving) can and will blame the RAF it is not totally the RAF's fault (although I accept that perhaps more concentration on our AT fleet might have been beneficial - ah the wonder of hindsight!:cool:)

Foldie:)

PS. Remember, under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, the MOD (and therefore the fighting Services) were only equipped to be committed to one medium scale conflict at any one time. But those 2 a**holes didn't read that chapter and committed us to Iraq and Afghan at the same time (But Brown, when Chancellor, reneged on his promise to fund the wars from the Govt Contingency Fund, rather than the MOD purse) without equipping us so to do and, some might say, to enhance their political standing with our allies! So don't blame the RAF - you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, although we have often saved the day by doing just that!

Excellent article which pulls no punches. How embarrassing for soldiers to have to hitch a ride on a civilian aircraft to get to a military conflict involving British troops!!!

I hate to say it and I stand to be corrected but I am sure charter flights were used to fly troops out to Aden in the mid 1960's? My memory is not what it should be but I'm sure I flew out from one of the London located airports. Was it Gatwick

Why hasn't it got a freight door?

Glojo, BEags,

Thanks both.

We'll be chartering civilian ships to retake the Falklands next!

Same Aircraft, 1986.

Took off from Brize, my first ever flight in an 'Airliner' - had to shut an engine down in the climb. (fire caption apparently) Circled for what seemed an age dumping fuel listening to a supermarket version of the Beatles 'And I love her' thinking, is this the last poxy song I'll ever hear?
Night in the Hotel, just nodded off woken up in bed, - no it's OK, we go again. Which we did, until we reached Ascension. Refueling problem. Stuck there in a pullover and a parka in a compound for hours, while semi-naked squaddies emptied the vending machines of beer.
Although I did feel a little smug when arriving in FI a day and a half after we set off it was minus god knows what and the sunburned squaddies in T-Shirts realised exactly why I was carrying the parka.

Really non of these crates should be in the air. The MOD are using up luck that belongs to somebody else.

Mid 90's and Ex Purple Star saw 18 Sqn crews and ground crew flying to Cherry Point on a charter aircraft that was short finals to got to a desert graveyard and our Chinooks and Puma's getting to the US in a chartered boat totally unfit for purpose.

Any of the SH folk involved will no doubt remember the daily briefing telling us that the aircraft would, yet again not be arriving today, a clusterf@ck of truly outstanding proportions :p

Had to think about that for some time. Do you know, there is a huge number of Google hits for James Blunt.:E

It's his stage-name, but not too far removed from the entry on his Birth Certificate, just missing a vowel.

mmitch,

You can't be too careful where security is concerned.

Anyhoo, now you've brought the subject up, I wonder what the chances are of seeing the Voyager at any R.A.F. airshows as well as, I'm sure, Farnborough this year?;)

FB:)

What part of cost-effective do you miss?

Admin hauls of Passengers do not require a Military Transport.

He once said in an interview that he changed it from Blount to Blunt because it wouldn't be quite as funny whenever people called him a Count.

Disappointing to read some responses trying to drag "Blunty" down.....his music may not be to all tastes (he's obviously the first to recognise that, judging by his humour) but it seems to me he's well on side.

He had good reason to write that report; especially in view of a similar debacle when he was last invited to travel "Britmil".

Anothers fame, success and earnings often bring out the bad side with some folk :(

I was very cross when I saw the article but wasn't after I had read it.

Courtney,

He served 6 years as a recce commander with the Household Cavalry, including the NATO action in Kosovo, plus his father was a Chief of Staff for the AAC, so he does have some relevant experience to fall back on.

Charter flights.
 

Glojo,

Yes you are correct about the Aden flights. I went out on a British United VC10 from Gatwick in 1966, but I think the service was taken over by the new RAF VC10s shortly after I got my knees brown.

Good article , not to critical of the RAF more so of the political masters ,
My Question is , the must be a glut off half decent airlines parked up somewhere . With all the airlines that have went bust in the last few years. Why haven't we looked at either a buy or long term Leese . Even as a temp ?

Must admit I thought the article was a thoughtful piece and it saddens me (ex-RAF) to see you guys still struggling on with aircraft BA laid off a decade plus ago and which is now pretty much a museum piece.

Sadly you can't just buy a box labelled "bust airline" and have a ready made Transport Fleet..... Aircraft from the failed airlines have either gone back to the leasing company or in some cases off to the desert/side of a runway somewhere, and the crews and support staff will have dispersed to either the job centre or are already off to Emirates.

To regenerate one of these outfits would involve similar expense to starting up a new airline and I get the impression HMGs not going to foot the bill - so the RAF struggles on with the existing fleet ( and yes, IMHO it's wrong).

My first major overseas detachment, with 120 Squadron, was to Singapore in 1966. We flew out on a British Eagle Britannia charter flight, with the best Cabin Crew I have ever flown with. We arrived at Paya Lebar on schedule, after two stops - at Akrotiri and Colombo - which I feel sure were more needed to replenish the bars than the fuel tanks! Thirsty lot, the Kipper Fleet.

A reliable charter flight would surely be more cost-effective than relying on those venerable Tristars. Captain (Cavalry Retd) Blount's 'Hat Trick' is a shocking indictment of the current state of the RAF's transport fleet.

It isn't just wars we're trying to do on the cheap, it's everything. The fact is that we're in a business that costs money; either the war fighting bit or the support to ops bit. If we continue to do it on the cheap then at some point very soon, people are going to end up in the dock explaining themselves because we're cutting corners in breach of law. Sounds dramatic I know but it's true :{

Wiggy, the desert is located a sparrows fart from from Odious, and is called Lasham, see link

aircraft storage LASHAM - Google Search

There is a damn good reason the likes of Queasy Jet and Ryan Scare shift their jets on at about the 5 year point, they come off warranty and the maintainence cost soar.. God knows how the MOD can justify flying around decades old Tristars and VC10's, fuel consumption alone must be horrific on the Tens, you need to fly the proverbials off them, then shift them on while they hold high residual values, Ryan Scare by having a high fleet turn over can drive down the cost of new aircraft from the manufacturers.

I realise the country is skint, but by the time you offset the higher maintenance costs, downtimes and fuel burns against a lower operating costs of a leased aircraft, I would bet the figures would open some eyes.

Nut (re-your post now deleted?)

Absolutely agree, although it's not an original concept as I'm sure many others here would concur; and the troops would be far better served.

tlightb - yup, most warriors were flown out on charter. I went out on a British United Brittania in '64 (I think!), certainly from Stansted. Back and forth on various others, inluding the RAF Comet IV and Hastings (UGH!). But with the advent of the BOAC VC10, life became far better. On a further tour at Muharraq (short straw), the Moonrocket RAF VC10 was simply bliss - as was the arrival/departure procedure in those days at Brize.

We had a shorter and less stressful confict then: so why can't those now responsible for putting our people in harm's way be far more attentive to today's combatants' far greater needs ? I think I know - they have no f***ing idea or understanding of military confict or ethos , despite their briefings/prepared speeches/PR visits etc etc. Three Chavs approaching early middle age - God help us.

I said this earlier but several places to which we would have flown the troops was to military bases and we tended not to have civvies flying in to them. That is still true to a point but there is no reason why the pax aircraft can't do the bulk of the route with Tac(T) doing the final leg.

There was also the special mods that the airbox deemed essential which was why our VC10s were different from everyone else's VC10 from feight doors to floor to fuel in the fin. We did the same trick with the perfectly reasonable Argosy. Once we got into the special mods game then of course any economies of scale disappeared. Of course we have learnt that lesson with Voyager haven't we?

ShyTorque,

Who, Sir? Not me, Sir? I just asked a tongue in cheek question!

Foldie:ouch:

Don't understand this response to my input. Many civvies flew on all these flights that I alluded to --- ?