India Mulls Big Jump in French Rafale Order

PARIS — India could buy up to 189 of the Rafale fighter jets currently being used by France to bomb Islamist militants in Mali, sources close to negotiations on the multi-billion dollar deal have told AFP.

The possibility of an additional 63 jets being added to an expected order for 126 was raised by India when Foreign Minister Salman Khurshid visited Paris last week, they said. “There is an option for procurement of an additional 63 aircrafts subsequently, for which a separate contract would need to be signed,” a source said. “Presently the contract under negotiation is for 126 aircraft, but we are talking about the follow-up.”

The Indian press has estimated the value of the deal for 126 Rafales at $12 billion (nine billion euros). A 50 percent increase in the number of planes ordered would take it to around $18 billion in a huge boost for the French defense industry.

India selected French manufacturer Dassault Aviation as its preferred candidate to equip its air force with new fighter jets in January 2012. Under the deal on the table, the first 18 Rafales would be built in France, but the next 108 would be assembled in India by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.

“The first aircraft will be delivered three years after signature of the contract,” the source added. An industry expert said the time lag reflected India’s request for two-seater jets rather than the one-seater model that Dassault currently produces...........

Correct me if I am wrong but the Indians were after Naval and Land based aircraft hence the selection of the French aircraft.

I will get my coat....:*

considering the cost of F35's maybe Canada should buy 130ish for 12B, and require final assembly/license production here

Certain RCAF views about the excellence of the Rafale during the Libyan campaign have certainly been expressed to their leadership.... Dassault have also responded to a recent Canadian RFI.

Unlike the TypHoon, Rafale refuels extremely quickly from the CC-150T used by the RCAF, a significant issue when 8-ship formations are considered.

Rafale might well be capable of STOBAR from the RN's carriers with less modification to the carriers than would be required for F-18E/F/G...

Why the "might"? Surely it would just be a matter of asking the French for the plans to their carrier?

Rafale is a great piece of kit, would be even better with Eurojet's iso the M88's.

He said STOBAR.

Point taken. But anyway, Dassault reckon Rafale is STOBAR capable:

Le Rafale Marine compatible avec les porte-avions dotés de tremplin | Mer et Marine

That will depend upon the take-off run available and whether the ship is equipped with a ski-ramp.

Hence my use of 'might'.....:rolleyes:

You're wrong!! The MMRCA is for the IAF only. The IN has already bought Mig 29M for their carriers and there is a Naval versioi of the Tejas also being proceured so they will eventually operate two types of FJ aircraft from their carriers.

Does the Eurojet fits? And isn't it optimized (too much?) for high alt / high speed?

It is seemingly irresistible to start swapping bits in perfectly serviceable aircraft. It always ends in tears, very expensive tears. May I politely suggest we just stick with the M88's?

I was just trying to make a point that the EJ200 would be better because it is a better engine, doesn't mean that they should start swapping it immediately, anyway the people at SNECMA are now upgrading the M88 from version 2 to 4, meaning the added possibility of max. 20000Lbs of thrust iso the original 17000.

France is going for the 4 version because of its improved reliability-lower maintenance costs, I think they are passing for the extra oomph for now.


As for possible engines, the F404/414 from GE, the Eurojet200 and M88 are all basically direct competitors thrust, size and weight-wise, the first Rafale ,the A, had F404 engines, same as the predecessor of the current Eurofighter.

[disclaimer: genuine question] Better overall? How is that defined? I'm thinking thrust, weight, size, fuel consumption (hence fuel fraction), Ir "stealthness", price (tag), price (maintenance), reliability... and find myself unable to make an educated conclusion (I admit lacking knowledge on both engines).

Yes. There was a choice to make: You could not (if I understood correctly) have both the improved reliability and the extra-thrust.
The choice indeed was made in favor of keeping the 7.5t thrust with better reliabiliy/lower costs, instead of going to the 9t thrust version (which BTW also brings the need to redesign the intakes), deemed unnecessary.


Yes, but the Rafale A (demonstrator) was substancially bigger than the production aircrafts... Hence I fear we can't draw any conclusion, here ;)

Not disputing your point about it being a better engine, but making a point about the process of doing refits, especially given the attitude of big industry/MoD which is that such things are a licence to make/waste money for years.

Rafale
 

Is it an autocorrect thing or do people still not realise that the subject of this thread is called the RAFALE?!

It is named after a term roughly translated as a volley of fire.

It is not named after either an Italian painter or a ninja turtle.

BV

Sorry, one of my pet hates.