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Jamesdevice wrote:-
""Under Putin, Russia is re-inventing /revisiting both its imperial and communist past" So they're might sail past Gibralter (UK colony) Melihah (Spanish colony) Malta (ex British colony), Cyprus (still a British base) possibly via Egypt (another ex British "protectorate") and Aden (least said ...) and Oman (just about independent from the UK) to the straights of Hormuz Just WHO are the imperialists on this route James??? |
I have yet to see any footage of those aircraft taking off with anything like a half decent payload but by crikey they do have a very envious power to weight ratio.
Looking at the footage in the above posts it looks to me like one aircraft is taking off with the brakes still fully on!! It has certainly left behind a large amount of rubber. I dread to think of the additional costing to try and upgrade the Typhoon for carrier operation. My home from home was directly underneath the flight deck and all recoveries were more like controlled 'crashes'. The under carriage has to be constructed from good old fashioned Welsh cast iron!! :uhoh:;) Anything less will not stand the stresses involved in this environment.
Originally Posted by My Resident Boffin
Because it's a very space-inefficient way of operating a deck. Both launch and recovery modes require most of the deck to be clear, hence very little room for spotting a/c. Kuznetsov is bigger than QEC, yet has less sortie generation potential.
https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/ulyan...jpg?w=008ce3d5 |
Harry
I am laughing when reading his "Now under Putin you have the beginnings of a military resurgence", "They are now emerging from that military hiatus. More intrusive flights, more naval expeditions", and "They have global territorial objectives again, and these excursions are part of their rebuilding their skill set" |
Serge. Harry
But we gave up our territorial ambitions and don't really want them back And as for "I am laughing when reading his..." To paraphrase a certain lady called Mandy "Well you would, wouldn't you" You may be too young to remember that one... |
"But we gave up our territorial ambitions and don't really want them back"
And yet since 1991, we have operated in a long list of countries, many of which were either former territory, or fell into our spheres of influence. Is it any wonder people are suspicious of UK / western motives when they see us still hanging round in areas we'd claimed to have left 40 plus years ago? We may not harbour territorial amibitions, but we still have policy ambitions to keep certain nations in our sphere of interest / influence. |
It would only be prudent that such a surface deployment had an SSN for support. Given that this Russian deployment is passing so close to the UK, indeed according to open source at one point sheltering 30 nm from the moray firth, do we know precisely where this SSN is? Assuming that it is there of course.....:ugh:
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RasPutin is just itching to pick a fight with the West and to be seen as a hero in the eyes of China, Iran and others.
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ah, here we go. Some more excellent reporting from the Daily Fail
"HMS York scrambled to Scotland....." Wonder what the time to interception was? HMS York scrambled to Scotland in Russian fleet security scare | Mail Online |
Hell Man, Putin does not want any issues. Moreover, today he and his hand-toy Dima are face to face with probable revolution inside the country. So, any wars outside - what can be worse for them? Putin is a lead of the gangs, crooks and theives, the only thing that he needs - don't stop getting money from taxes, gas, wood and oil. War means the end of this beautiful life for him. One of the most recent phrases by Putin "Do not shake the boat!"
James, my native language is Russian and Ukrainian, so I did not catch this athorism. The only thing that I can say - our Russian government people don't want to do their best for army - almost all that you hear as renovation is the way to launder money or to steal something. I know what I am talking about - I had spent 12 years in Russian Armed Forces |
Serge
it comes from a 1960's court case, and associated scandal in which a British Defence Minister called John Profumo was found to be sharing a prostitute / "girlfriend" with the senior Soviet Naval Attache... Quite a good effort by the Soviets - they got rid of one our more professionally minded (at the time) defence politicians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandy_Rice-Davies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Profumo |
Russian warships steams within 30 miles of UK coast to take shelter from dreadful weather conditions!
Is this really a big deal? I guess being a warship does been it needs political clearance to enter our waters but we are talking about storm force or at times hurricane force winds and even Nelson had to give second best and take shelter. The much sought after anchorage they sheltered in would have been either Lyme or Torbay and guess what? Today there are just under THIRTY ships from numerous nations all sheltering here in Torbay taking that much sought after sanctuary. The numbers will obviously vary by the minute It is not news, it is good seamanship and of course self preservation, but never let the truth get in the way of a headline grabbing story! As I am typing I note the coastguard helicopter (CG 106) is airborne and heading out to seaward. |
What a panic? 30 miles is out of 12-mile zone around the shores, isn't it?
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ah, here we go. Some more excellent reporting from the Daily Fail "HMS York scrambled to Scotland....." Wonder what the time to interception was? |
What a panic? 30 miles is out of 12-mile zone around the shores, isn't it? Hopefully this might answer your query. Click here I guess the Kuznetsov will be receiving a certain degree of attention from numerous assets from our armed forces... |
glojo,
'I guess the Kuznetsov will be receiving a certain degree of attention from numerous assets from our armed forces... ' That's the funniest thing I've heard in ages! Duncs |
I don't think so, sitigeltfel..... Back when Gorbachev met Maggie at Brize, some of us were tasked to assist the crews of the 4 Il-62s involved. Mine was the one with the KGB security folk on board, who were whisked off to the Gateway for lunch whilst we sorted out the aircrews' requirements. On board the jet (with excellent cabin heating, unlike the FunBus), the chief flight attendant asked whether we'd like coffee. We accepted with grateful thanks, whereupon her Rosa Klebb countenance morphed into a friendly prep school matron's smile. From the galley appeared 3 gorgeous little Russian hosties with excellent coffee and some very tasty Russian chocolates. We went out of our way to say how good they were and thanked them - they turned pink and scuttled back to the galley like naughty little schoolgirls. There was only one rather dubious looking chap on the jet - obviously the KGB aircraft security bloke who sat brooding in the corner in his track suit. But we even got him to smile when I saw the nest of chapka hats in the overhead rack and began stroking and miaowing at them - by then the Russians thought we were completely bonkers. Eventually the American navigator came on board (the jet was due to land in the US) - rather a petite blonde captain. When we heard excited voices from the rather ursine flight deck crew, I asked our host why the female navigator was such a surprise - "Surely you have female aircrew in your air force?" "Da, we do - but none like her!" It was quite a fun day - the spooks went into a fluster when 39 out of 40 KGB in matching raincoats returned from the Gateway. They obviously concluded that the missing man was either defecting or taking photos of the decadent capitalist hotel. But then he appeared all hot and flustered and out of breath. Much barracking from his colleagues, so I queried our host. "He in lavatory - miss bus. Had to walk!" Sometimes the obvious reasons are overlooked! Remember the Antics, New fuelling unit, connected up, then sample taken to see what additives was in their fuel.. before refuelling. Standing some of the mature trees up along the main drag with 4 tonners and backfilling and turfing so they all appeared upright and neat... Towing the hire cars away from outside the terminal, and listening to the bang as all the steering locks sheared. Removing all the bike stands including the bikes in them. Resurfacing of the road overnight outside the camp, so his wife could visit the local school (Reminds me of Gut when they did the same for the Queen and she went the other way I believe). Emptying the local villages dustbins and all the rubbish along the said route as there was a strike on and the rest of the village complaining we hadn't done theirs. Full rehearsal including meal the day before. Painting everything...... (Still not as bad as Odious when they shovelled the snow off the road and then sprayed the dirty snow white, so that Prince Charles would see pristine snow as he was whisked through to his flight)........ Ahhh the Bullsh*t, not missed...... |
Hi Serge, Hopefully this might answer your query. Click here I guess the Kuznetsov will be receiving a certain degree of attention from numerous assets from our armed forces As for me, more suitable in this situation would be talking about the our weak ancient ships that can't go through small storm without stopping near the isle. But now we can see that islemen are alerted about these weak vessels instead of laughing about the warships that looks like persons with disabilities in the sea. |
Hi Serge,
We have in recent days experienced weather that has been quite exceptional Click here I do agree with your very valid point and just like any sailor I have been in some really violent storm force conditions although 150mph ++ is exceptional. 100mph plus winds in a small frigate is from experience 'entertaining' and as you rightly say it should not be a cause of concern for a carrier, but is she in company with any smaller ships that our tabloid press have not reported? You do have or did have much smaller vessels that tended to shadow our exercises and I guess these may well have struggled to cope with those types of sea conditions. I could can understand the need for taking shelter if she could not clear her flight deck of all the ancillary equipment that she may be carrying, although with that ski-slope type bow, unlike our older conventional carriers I doubt if she would be taking green water over the bow. It is a sad reflection on the state of our own surface fleet when we have to steam from Portsmouth all the way north for that type of duty. You can bet your bottom dollar that it was a most uncomfortable journey for the crew of the British warship as I doubt they were asked to take their time getting on station. http://www.myemoticons.com/images/hu...the-toilet.gif |
Hi glojo
They all are from the North Flees bases. Towns around these navy bases are obviously in Russia called "the towns of flying dogs", so, the picture like is ok for our north - nothing exceptional. Speed of the wind 165 mph is a record and I believe that an average is much slower. Kuznetsov has a company of Chabanenko which displacement is 8900 tons - it is less then almost 60000 tons for Kuznetsov, but almost equal two HMS York's displacements. Also there are several frigates with displacements like HMS York. All other ships, as I know, should share their sailing in the near future, but not now. Note, that frigate Neustrashimij (Undaunted) there is for relocating his Ka-27 helicopter on Kuznetsov. So, russian navy pilots consider this weather is ok for flights from one ship to another. What about the state of our fleets (and Armed Forces in general) - it's a common problem. Governments do not want to feed big army - they forget the phrase "You will feed an enimy's army if you do not want to feed your own soldiers". Russia now feel it - we pay Chechnya, which officially is the part of Russia but in fact - the separate hostile territory with slavery, gunshots and terrorists. |
On the other hand:
If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat. And if he is thirsty, give him water to drink; for you will heap burning coals on his head, and the Lord will reward you. (Proverbs 25:21,22) Not I sure I entirely understand that, but there you go. |
the towns of flying dogs |
They would have felt at home in the Moray Firth :)
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They would have felt at home in the Moray Firth :}:E;) |
Courtney, sometimes I think - may be it would be better to feed enimies from outside then theives from inside - from our own government
Green Flash, can you imaging how were we happy, being posted in those assholes after Military Academies and Military Universities? I still remember these 28 months in the Regt near Ussuriysk, where in wintertime was -25..-30°C (-13..-22 °F) and without the snow because of wind that blows all the snow away. |
Hi Serge,
Thank you so much for posting that Youtube clip.... I HATE COLD WEATHER, hence I live in the South-West of England. I felt so sorry for that child who lost their hat!! Thank goodness they did not get run over trying to recover it. To put things in perspective my children who are now in their late twenties have only ever seen snow once in their lives and that was last year!! I agree with you when you state how your ships would easily deal with the current sea conditions. I served on a frigate that was just over 2500 tons and she would easily have sailed through those types of sea. I have fond memories regarding some pilots that if the need arose would fly their wasp helicopter in hurricane force winds!! :ooh::ooh: (not all of them would) I guess landing a helicopter on the moving ride of a big dipper might, just might be more difficult, but in Force 12 or 13 hurricane force winds with the ship going up and down like a see-saw and rolling from side to side, with ice on the decks and of course the ship trying to make head-way is not something I would be first in the queue to try. Then once safely down on the deck having to rely on the deck handlers to run out with strops to lash the thing down. That takes HUGE cajones. RESPECT with a capital 'R' to these brave men in their flying machines :D;) Who really knows why that Russian group of ships decided to pay us a visit? Tongue in cheek and just for the conspiracy idiots that sometimes play their |
Hi glojo, you should not be sorry about it - it is just a weather, like a rain, fog or something. We really do not recognize it like a disaster. Don't take that to heart, we are used to this weather. It's just a weather.
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Hi Serge,
Your grasp of the English language is amazing..... My hearty congratulations but I was not sorry or sad regarding the weather, as you rightly say it is an act of nature and that is something NO ONE can alter. I felt sorry for that child who lost their hat in that extremely severe weather. It hurtled off their head and for a moment my heart was in my mouth as that child run onto the road. Loosing a hat in those freezing conditions is going to be extremely uncomfortable and what will mum and dad say when that child comes home without their headgear? :sad: |
glojo, we just do not divide the weather (wind) and the consequences (loosing hat in this case) - it's the same for us. That's the reason because of which I had write my prev post.
Actually, nature could be more dangerous than this wind and we know a lot about that fact. May be because of that we do not pay attention to the lost hats and several small bruises due to that wind: Ok, it's a time to feed my own bear, I should give him some conserved milk and vodka. |
Russian warships leave Moray Firth for Atlantic
BBC News - Russian warships leave Moray Firth for Atlantic Russian warships and support vessels which had taken shelter in the Moray Firth are heading for the Atlantic, according to the Royal Navy. HMS York has been tracking aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov, a destroyer and two frigates. Three oil tankers in the task group left the warships to pass through the Pentland Firth on Thursday. An ocean-going tug, the Nikolay Chiker, was about 27 miles off Stronsay in Orkney on Friday morning. The Ministry of Defence (MoD) said the vessels - elements of Russia's Baltic Fleet - were moving over the top of Scotland. Shetland Coastguard said the tankers had moved through the Pentland Firth - the stretch of water between Scotland's north mainland coast and Orkney. The Nikolay Chiker had been headed north off Orkney before turning north east. |
HMS York completes a week shadowing Russia’s biggest warship around the British Isles
http://www.navynews.co.uk/archive/news/item/3121 Northern Fleet Pilots Fly Over Atlantic |
When he was practicing aerobatics, NF Fighter Regiment Deputy Commander Col. Pavel Podguzov carried out first deck landing. |
The Russian Navy are quite active during this deployment in Morse Code. For the most part they use international callsigns and a list of frequencies assigned and agreed by the International Telegraph Union.
Obviously the near impossible part is linking the callsign to the exact vessel. That aside they do on occasion send weather and sea state reports containing a lat and long. I noted callsign RAL46 sending the following on 12464 Khz at 1234 GMT today. RAL46 BT 715 19 21 1614 715 BT FM RAL46 21121 99367 70096 41498 80207 10160 40310 53010 70211 884// 22233 20801 302// 41002 21014 BT AR From the message the second and third groups contain the lat long. That puts the ship off the southwest of Portugal. 36.7N 09.6W 36.7N 09.6W - Google Maps Group 6 = 10160 will be the temperature plus 16 I believe that group 11 indicates heading and speed? 22233 222 degrees at 3.3 knots? Probably an indication that the Kuznetsov Task Group, or elements of, are shortly to enter the Mediterranean and meet up with the Frigate Ladny? Black Sea Fleet (BSF) frigate Ladny heading for the Mediterranean Sea has called at French Navy's main naval base Toulon before joining Russian Navy carrier group comprising ships of Northern and Baltic fleets. .... The Russian warship will replenish water and fuel supplies in Toulon and on Dec 17 lay a course for the rendezvous point of Russian Navy carrier group in the western part of the Mediterranean. Black Sea Fleet Frigate Ladny Visits French Toulon The Ladny has already visited Malta earlier in the month. LADNYY 801 - ShipSpotting.com - Ship Photos and Ship Tracker The following links contain the frequencies and info for those with a receiver. NSNL 72 - Military stations Morse Code Networks Morse Traffic explained |
Out of interest (boredom?) I googled the Ladnyy. I don't know how much she has been updated over the years, but she is a 30+ year old frigate, still equipped with SSN-14 and SAN-4.
I haven't looked at the vessels that make up the rest of the Task Group, and am not up to date with recent developments in Russian naval forces, how is their ship building programme these days, have there been any follow on post Udaloy, Sovremenny and Slava, which must all be starting to get a bit long in the tooth! (Obviously I am not expecting to hear anything that isn't open source -in fact, given my usual track record on pprune I'm not expecting any response at all!!) |
Biggus,
Udaloy was followed by Udaloy II. The last Sovremmeny is only about five years old, I think China bought it, with all new SANs. Slava was a bit older, using (I think) the Kresta/Kara hull. I think the programme fell apart when the Soviet Union colapsed. Hope an answer is a nice surprise! Even if it isn't very helpful. |
Courtney,
Thanks...... :ok: |
Morse weather report from callsign RK081 with coordinates.
Transmitted on 8345 Khz at 0030 GMT 22 December RK081 BT 794 20 22 0400 794 BT SML 22001 99369 70069 41798 10305 10160 .027. .4000 70200 81/// 22223 00170 21/// 303// ...... Signal fades out From the second and third group the lat and long is 36.9N 06.9W (North West of Rota/Cadiz, Spain) 36.9N 06.9W - Google Maps |
Biggus wrote
I haven't looked at the vessels that make up the rest of the Task Group,... Admiral Kuznetsov, Admiral Chabanenko The Baltic Fleet Frigate Yaroslav Mudry joined the Task Force off Scotland along with the tanker/oiler Lena. SAR Nikolay Chiker Fleet oilers Sergei Osipov, Vyazma, Kama The Baltic Fleet Frigate Neustrashimy is also part of the Task Force defence.professionals | defpro.com |
Morse Code message on 12464 Khz at 1214 GMT - 22 December. This places the vessel in the Mediterranean.
RMP DE RK081 QSA IMI QTC K RKO81 303 20 22 1600 303 BT SML FOR RJD38 BT 22121 99357 70041 41798 12705 10180 40266 5.000 70200 81001 22233 0170. ..501 327// 4///// 88000 80000 22017 AR RK081 From the second and third groups of the message. 35.7N 04.1W 35.7N 04.1W - Google Maps The callsign that the vessel (RK081) is sending the message to is RMP. This is the Baltic Fleet HQ at Kaliningrad so it narrows down the likely candidates. Global Frequency Database: Details - Kaliningrad, Russia RMP 4.079 MHz/4079 kHz - Radio Scanner Frequencies Very hard to tie down the callsign to a specific ship. It could be anyone of the Baltic Fleet vessels in the Task Group? RK081 is possibly the Tanker Lena entering the Mediterranean first to link up with the Black Sea Fleet Frigate Ladny? Baltic Sea Fleet elements of the Task Force. Tanker Lena Frigate Yaroslav Mudry Frigate Neustrashimy Russia: BF Frigate Yaroslav Mudry Joins Carrier Group >> Naval Today |
Another two vessels enter the Mediterranean
Morse Code message on 12464 Khz at 1254 GMT - 22 December RIT DE RAL46 QSA IMI QTC K RAL46 145 17 22 1630 145 BT FM RAL46 RAL65 FOR RJD74 RJH45 22121 99357 70040 41/98 03004 10180 40.62 51020 70200 22233 330// 40801 22012 BT AR RAL46 From the second and third group of the message. 35.7N 04.0W 35.7N 04.0W - Google Maps Vessel RAL46 is also sending the message for another callsign RAL65. It appears to be travelling in close proximity. Callsign RAL46 and RAL65 could be the carrier Admiral Kuznetsov and escort Admiral Chabanenko? The callsign RIT is HQ Northern Fleet Severomorsk. |
The Frigate Ladny is currently visiting Ceuta.
Black Sea Fleet (BSF) frigate Ladny pays formal visit to Spanish port of Ceuta, told BSF Information Support Department to Central Navy Portal. Carrying out long-range cruise in the Mediterranean Sea, BSF frigate Ladny pays the last formal call at Spanish port of Ceuta en route to rendezvous point with Russian Navy's task force. Earlier on, Ladny called at ports of Malta and France. Basically, the visit's purpose is replenishment of fuel and water supplies as well as crew rest. During the visit, the cruise command will visit city and military authorities of Ceuta. Visit of frigate Ladny to the Spanish port will finish on Dec 23. As is expected, tomorrow the ship would join the task force of Northern and Baltic fleets led by aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov. According to the the seawaves website the Ladny will visit Valletta, Malta on the 27th December. The RFS Sergei Osipov will visit Valletta, Malta on the 26th December. Warship & Navy Port Visits | SeaWaves Books Hard to say from the monitored Morse communications whether the Kuznetsov is actually in the Mediterranean. Obviously some elements have made the transit. Callsign RKO81 made a further transmission yesterday with a position off the coast of Morocco. A Russian TV Channel reported the following on the 22nd December. The Russian squadron led by heavy aircraft carrying cruiser "Admiral Kuznetsov" is close to Gibraltar. |
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