How would the gas bag respond to an ER warhead?
After an excellent landing etc,,, |
Or to napalm?
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Probably the same way any other transport type aircraft would.
Crash. |
ER? Neutron bomb?
Napalm? If we are talking airstrike, how well does an A400M withstand a cluster bomb? |
Cambs RAeS 11th Sept
Just noted that David Stewart of Hybrid Air Vehicles will talk on the subject at Cambridge Royal Aeronautical Society Thurs 11th Sept starting at 19.00.
I am guessing that all the questions will be answered. Dr Hugh Hunt may also be around that evening - he has some expertise on shooting down Zeppelins. |
talk
I've just been to the HQ version of this. The Head of Partnerships and Communications Chris Daniels was there along with, I think the technical director but I didn't bring a pen and pad, stupidly, to write names down.
From what I can remember and in no order (please remember that I am not qualified in any way and if I have misheard something they said then I won't know I'm repeating rubbish):
That's my brain dump for the moment. I'll edit if I remember any more. |
Thanks Txxxx....
What will it take to do the second Airlander 10, in terms of money and time? (I'm guessing that the first "Airlander 10" is the ex-LEMV.) As for the 50 - many sillier ideas have been prototyped and some have been put into production, |
I don't know what they need in terms of development money to get to a 2nd Airlander 10. As I understand it they have done a lot of that work already and their worries and concerns are related to certification.
They have apparently hired a very great expert in certification who will guide them through it. Someone asked what it would cost to buy "one" and I wasn't clear whether they meant the -10 or the -50 unfortunately. That figure was quoted approximately $40 million. I suppose the -50 has 3 hulls stitched together rather than two but 3x the volume. So in the world of wild guesstimates it might be 1.5 to 3x more than the -10 if we assume that the quote referred to the -10. They were also asked about Helium. Apparently: 1) Even with 100 airships their use would be a blip compared to the uses of Helium today in things such as medical scanners and so on. 2) The price has been stabilising because these devices are getting better at not losing Helium in their lifecycle even as supply has become a little more constrained. 3) A lot of natural gas production produces Helium which no-one has bothered to capture because of the somewhat artificially low price of it thanks to the large American stockpile that has been available. 4) Fracking does not offer a supply. |
Why bother! The Herc can carry 20t and the C17 closer to 50t. You don't have to suck it to the ground and/or burn precious gas keeping it on the ground. No need for a mast like the 10 tonner. They can both land on rough strips and get there at 2x and 3x the speed. They're not a complete 'sitting duck' like a blimp and they are a lot smaller in size to spot than a blimp as well.
So 5-6 days manned - wasn't that what BAESYSTEMS came up with their dabble with airships in the 80s/90s. That's progress then!!! :ugh: I'd rather throw the £400M at capabilities that stand a chance of actually making sales for the UK rather this croc of 'snake oil'! LJ |
I thought I better post this again...
The tired old carousel of Lighter-than-air (LTA) continues to revolve, on average once every twenty years or so. Is that an Aereon or a Megalifter? In a poor light a Skyship looks much like a Dynairship. Whatever virtues LTA once possessed have now been overtaken by the enrmous reduction in payload size and power consumption and the ready availability of uav's of all sizes, from Globalstar downwards, with which to deploy them. Time on station has been a red herring for years, the area to focus on being "on station" LTA has never been any good at this, a twenty knot headwind reduces your speed of advance by 40%, and is likely to result, if prolonged for anytime, in the vehicle being as likely to be found in Alabama as Afghanistan. In the trophosphere the situation gets worse! The main attraction of LTA lies in the fact that those seeking investment in such crackpot schemes know that investors have no reliable database of what the build or r&d costs for such turkeys ought to be, it's rich picking time for the snake oil salesmen when an air ship project hits town. Luckily, the tired old carousel at DARPA and similar institutions revolves at about the same speed, whenever anybody at such government offices wants a little extra cash for themselves, why not flag up a new "Walrus" or "Skycat"? It like goldfish, a short attention span means you can re-introduce the same nonsense time and again and wait hopefully for the cheques to drop through the letterbox! It is just possible that a conventional blimp of about 100 metres, approximately similar to a "K" class but with advanced glass cockpit and lightweight diesels, could make headway in the coastal surveillance/anti piracy field, but its a small r&d task, no money in it for the speculators you see. I know what I am talking about, invest at your peril! John Wood (Ex Chief Exec and co-founder of Airship Industries) |
LJ - I think you have made your views known before.
You have a point on the ISR side, although Mr Wood overlooks the fact that heavier-than-air UAVs undergo a startling increase in price as the payload goes up. That said, it is hard to compete with something like a Super Heron. As for the transport mission: it comes down to operating and acquisition economics - and nobody has said anything about £400 million. The 50-ton Airlander 50 sounds like it operates on four PW127s, which will cost less than four PW F117s. The LEMV was designed and built on a $154m contract - not sure how much of that was sensors/mission systems, but they were included. |
I think the contention, which I might be repeating, is that these aircraft have low operating costs. The comparison I heard was to a helicopter or a light aircraft. That seems to me to be quite a wide range of possibilities but at least it's below C-130 and C-17. I think the idea is that this is good relative to the payload.
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Select to team up with Hybrid Air Vehicles - Hyperspectral Sensor.
Selex ES and HAV to team up for MoD airship testing - 10/21/2014 - Flight Global
Selex ES is to team up with Hybrid Air Vehicles (HAV) to develop a sensor package for UK Ministry of Defence testing on board the latter’s Airlander 10 hybrid airship. Addressing the Commercial UAV show in London on 21 October, Mike Rickett, senior vice-president of air systems UK at Selex ES, said a UK industry team consisting of Selex, Qinetiq and HAV will carry out demonstrations for the MoD, which will include testing a package developed by Selex likely to include a radar and electro-optical/infrared sensor. “This is a very large platform to be able to mount our sensors on,” Rickett says. “We’re now at the point where we’re working on this MoD programme… but the MoD is not quite sure of what it wants. It is therefore asking us to put together a package of sensors.” ....... Selex is planning past the MoD’s forthcoming round of testing on the Airlander, and envisions the aircraft being used as a “mothership” to launch other unmanned air vehicles from, including the company’s own Falco platform. A catapult launcher has already been developed for the Falco that could be adapted to suit this requirement. |
I cannot believe that there are so many gullible people at the MoD being conned by these snake oil salesmen and their absurd crock of $hit gas bag nonsense.....
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Selex is planning past the MoD’s forthcoming round of testing on the Airlander, and envisions the aircraft being used as a “mothership” to launch other unmanned air vehicles from, including the company’s own Falco platform. A catapult launcher has already been developed for the Falco that could be adapted to suit this requirement. If they are going to attempt UAV recoveries like this though (1:00 onwards), I want a ringside seat! : |
I would not like to do that last recovery, with no landing gear. As in "none" - the F9C did not have a retractable gear. They just removed it for routine airship ops. I guess if you were 1000 miles out to sea it didn't matter.
But the real problem is that you're hooking on to a bloody US Navy airship, with nothing stronger than a Coke to look forward to. Savages! |
I cannot believe that there are so many gullible people at the MoD being conned by these snake oil salesmen and their absurd crock of $hit gas bag nonsense..... LJ |
I did wonder about these:
Israeli military inflates aerostat demand - 9/12/2014 - Flight Global Ok they're stationary but the Israelis seem to want them and they're not uav neophytes. |
Leon
What an astonishingly arrogant post. "I was the only voice of reason" There is a flip side to that statement. Often, not always, but often, the one voice is alone for a reason. Airships are not the same as aircraft, so a pilot of jets has no God given right to have a better opinion. I know nothing about airships, however I know some people who can see great potential in various roles. Some of those people are RN and some are RAF. Incidentally. Where do you reckon the Selex guys are from? 10:1 they are ex RAF. The constant refrain that "it has failed before so it is obviously ****e" is thankfully ignored by the sort of people who invent things throughout history. Even if it fails for another 50 years does not make the idea crap. Doesn't make it not crap obviously, but only time will tell, not grumpy old duffers who are set in their ways. Same sort of people who thought that the battleship would be around forever. The cavalry charge. Bright uniforms. The samurai sword. |
I did wonder about these: Israeli military inflates aerostat demand - 9/12/2014 - Flight Global Ok they're stationary but the Israelis seem to want them and they're not uav neophytes. |
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