Grey Ladies
 

I was talking recently to a friend who, like me, is a long retired RAF pilot (but not ex Coastal). We got onto the subject of the various formation aerobatics teams around in the '60s, and it turned out he had never seen or even heard of the Grey Ladies.
A shame really that so few people know of them. The twinkle roll with 4 Shackletons was quite something.
Of course, Fighter Command and Training Command claimed a monopoly on formation aeros, and the Grey Ladies were only allowed to do their displays at night.
If more people were aware of the 24 Shackleton loop at the Farnborough Air Show in 1966 (at 2 in the morning) they would not keep banging on about the 22 Hunters.
The sound of 95 Griffons at 2600 rpm ( one of the 204 Sqn aircraft had to feather No. 2 at the top of the loop - coolant leak as I recall) was incredible. So was the cursing from the galley.

That was 2,400,000 rivets in close formation then!!

oxenos
 

I'll have a glass of whetever you're drinking:ok:

When word of this reached Aden there were some pretty strong mixed emotions on 37 I can tell you, great pride obviously but tinged with a touch of envy at not being able to take part. We tried hard to get a pair of aircraft back in time but sadly it wasn't to be. Too many niggling little technical problems en route, the double mainplane replacement is one that springs to mind.

A double mainplane change? You must have been pulling a little too hard when you were practising. Or perhaps you shouldn't have practiced with a bomb bay full of 1000 pounders.

The 1000 pounders had to be stored somewhere. Probably more to do with the underslung rocket pods or possibly the local nightlife.

Very impressive. Let me know if this is still covered by the OSA, but any truth to the rumour that it wasn't Maverick and Goose who pulled that -4g stuff with the MiG-28, but actually a Shack ?

The recommended tattic (JASS speak for tactic) against MiGs was to let them get on your tail, then jettison fuel. This would over-fuel their engine, causing them to overtake you, at which point they would be an easy target fot the 20mm cannon in the nose turret.

MR. 2 Mainplane Overstressing
 

Oxenos,

I am assuming that the aircraft utilised for the display were MR. 2C or MR.3 Shacks which could take the necessary positive G for an inside loop. From what I remember The vipers on the MR.3 Phase 2 Shacks would cause over flexing of the wing spars due to the bending moments. No. 37 Sqn had the MR. 2's. I can see how leaving rocket pods would cause similar issues to MR.3 Phase 2 Shacks.

The Viper equipped aircraft did not start arriving on the Squadrons until May 66 so there was no time to work them into the display.

I am able to reveal, now that the cloak of secrecy has been lifted, that the Wiggins Aerodyne was the photographic 'chase' aircraft for the Shack formation loop.

This sortie was doomed from the start; due to the incredibly high cockpit vibration levels experienced in the Aerodyne (see an earlier post of mine on another thread), it was impossible to capture any images in the dark, despite the best efforts of the Observer/Box Brownie/Ever-Ready Torch combination.

Tragedy ensued when the Mighty Shacks pulled up into their majestic loop by moonlight; the dismal performance of the Aerodyne was such that Avro's finest were on the downside & pulling through their start point before the Wiggins contraption had changed attitude to follow them. As the lead Shack went straight through the struggling Aerodyne, the Shack captain merely thought that he had encountered a flock of moths, lured by the siren glow of the formation's lights; a quick flick of the windscreen wipers, and normal vision was restored.

This sorry episode was yet another calamity in the troubled history of the Aerodyne.

(Q: What is the correct collective noun for moths? Is it a 'De Havilland' of moths?)

Wiggins Aerodyne
 

Spent the best years of my life working on the Wiggins Aerodyne. She could be a feisty bitch. Cross-bleeding the Slave BCV was a Rigger's nightmare. I think Mr W designed the aircraft around it.

Halton Brat, have we met? Check yr PM's.

So there really was a Shack biplane! Thought it was just a rumour. :ooh:

Sadly no, the biplane concept was abandoned when it was shown that the interplane gap was not sufficient to accommodate the required duty free quantities needed for BBQs etc at home base and defensive capability. The double mainplane configuration referred to is the traditional "one either side" arrangement.

A side effect in the loop was severe alcohol leakage.

"A side effect in the loop was severe alcohol leakage"

Thought that was due to the age of the crews :uhoh:

oxenos
 

Surely the only Shack that could jettison fuel was the Mk 3, from the tip tanks. Of course, in latter days the Vipers proved to be fairly strong competition.

The approved 'tattic' (sic) for all the Kipper Fleet vs Migs (or anybody else who tried to shoot us through the kitchen) was undoubtedly:

"Stay calm and sedate,
Shove all 4 through the gate,
And smother the bast*rd in oil!"

From "Shackletons Don't Bother Me"
PPRuNe Passim, ad nauseam.

Actually, NR ,the Phase 3 aircraft, both Mk 2 & 3, could jettison fuel from the wings, so the tattic was brought in. You are surely not suggesting that the Griffon leaked oil? Well not much, anyway.

There was nightlife in Aden? No-one told me about that - bugger:*

Come, come Sir, - (so to speak) - wot you not of Maala Mary???:E:E ... and the bead necklace????:eek:

You folk have all got to stop sniffing glue!

Grey Ladies
 

Nah! Glue went out with wooden, fabric covered aircraft. Dope was better! But hydraulic fluid can be quite halucagenic if snorted properly!

I do remember a Shack taking off at the end of the display in 1964/5 and arriving back the following day at the start of the display having supposedly been on patrol in the mean time!

Once did a BK-Machrihanish-BK round trip in a similar timescale (without vipers)

I believe this was the only image of them doing their famous night time loop

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f...tion/loop1.jpg




:rolleyes:

Shack 37

From: Hauptmann Brat, Luftwaffe.

Mein dear Hr Shack, if you vos indeed making zis flug as you claim, how vos you doing it vizout vipers? Ze sea-spray at low level vill reduce your wisibility!

I am smelling a rat; zis is all Tommy-rot!

HB

"I do remember a Shack taking off at the end of the display in 1964/5 and arriving back the following day at the start of the display having supposedly been on patrol in the mean time! "

That was the one which did the singleton display over Rockall. Particularly spectacular in '64, when the Northern Lights were at their best.

HB. Wasn't the Aerodyne supposed to film the Rockall display that year? Rumour was that the sun-spot activity which produced the superb Northern lights upset so many of the Aerodyne's systems that they could not find Rockall.

The most advanced feature of the Aerodyne was the Wing-Warping system; this was designed to be impervious to any extraneous influences. Unfortunately, these safeguards were so efficaceous that this included pilot control inputs, resulting in yet more attrition in this troubled fleet.

Regarding navigation, it was often said that the Aerodyne crews could not find rockall, even in unlimited visibility..............

HB

I remember some Shack Navs who had the same problem!!

Anyone else remember the characterful Nav, F E, who spent all his spare time on Gan taking sun and star shots. He was convinced that Gan had been misplotted on his maps and charts!

Was it on the 3rd or 4th pass in front of the crowd that The Grey Ladies did the simultaneous "Scanner to Attack" move? Needed very precise timing due to the increased drag!

shacks
 

i can remember being at masirah in the Met Office when one landed late pm allegedly all the way from iceland
I used to help run civvie bar and would meet aircrew and lock them in storeroom come back in morning tot up number of cans and skipper would pay up
only place they could unwind as a crew

Herr Brot, windows open, heads out (with goggles of course). The goggles did have vipers.

You are smelling die Bratwurst not the Tommy rot.

Vipers? What vipers?...
 

...lining up for take off at BKY in our Mk2 Shack with a 203 a/c on the marshalling point to follow us.
Sgt co-pilot asks ATC for permission to start the vipers. ??? ATC says "But you're a Mk2??"
"I know" says our lad, "it's my vindscreen vipers" His giggles stifled by captain clattering him round the side of his bonedome. CRM?? WTF are you talking about?

The Ancient Mariner

Of course, part of the original plan for the 24-ship loop, was that once established in the loop, all 24 aircraft would simultaneously discharge their 'Flare and Flash' pyrotechnics.
IIRC this part of the display was cancelled as Higher Authority were concerned that such an illumination appearing suddenly over SE England would be reported by the Royal Observer Corp as the flash from a nuclear detonation (this was in the depths of the Cold War) with potentially disastrous consequences.

S206

By the way, when was the 'D' notice on this episode lifted?

Fifteen minutes into Happy Hour, by the looks of the above.

Indeed - followed on the next pass by "Blue Silk to memory".

The other notable innovation was when the now-legendary steam trail was introduced in 1967. The hot water boiler would be switched on 5 mins prior to the display start time to ensure a full head of steam as the formation started the display.

When Grey 1 called "Steam on, Steam on - GO!", on a moonlit night lucky bystanders could witness the never-to-be-forgotten sight of 24 vapour trails describing a lazy loop as the ghostly Grey Ladies formation soared into the heavens.

"Scanner to Attack" was used on the "downhill" part of the loop, to avoid excessive speed build up. As oldog says, timing was crucial, and the call was actually made by Grey Leader's radar operator.
HB - can't find your other thread about the Wiggins Aerodyne. Has it, like the Aerodyne itself, been consigned to the waste bin of history?

Oxenos

Good evening, my friend.

My inane ramblings regarding my beloved Aerodyne are scattered amongst other threads; I have the dreadful habit of sneaking the Old Girl into almost any topic, as she is a most versatile beast indeed. I am fairly sure that I drive the rest of the Pprune community to distraction with this foible of mine; if I were to start a 'Wiggins Aerodyne' thread, I fear that I would be evicted from same.........

If you are determined to reduce yourself to a soporific state, you will find my other posts when you click on my name, adjacent to this humble missive. I can accept no responsibility for any brain damage incurred by your good self...........

HB

This thread...
 

....has a distinct "other-worldly" quality to it, which makes it a pleasant change from the acrimony and bitching one finds in so many other topics.
Thanks Pete.

The Ancient Mariner