PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Military Aviation (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation-57/)
-   -   Gamekeeper 'drove Land Rover' at Army helicopter (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/457734-gamekeeper-drove-land-rover-army-helicopter.html)

coldair 18th Jul 2011 19:31

Gamekeeper 'drove Land Rover' at Army helicopter
 
From the BBC ;

BBC News - Gamekeeper 'drove Land Rover' at Army helicopter

http://stats.bbc.co.uk/o.gif?~RS~s~R...RS~z~RS~27~RS~

Gamekeeper 'drove Land Rover' at Army helicopter

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/image...12479866-1.jpg Malcolm Hughes is accused of driving his Land Rover at an Army helicopter
A gamekeeper could have killed two Army helicopter pilots when he drove his Land Rover straight at the low flying aircraft, a court has been told.
The pilot of a squirrel helicopter avoided disaster when he saw Malcolm Hughes' car driving towards him.
Lt Andrew Higgins was flying just 10ft above a field as he prepared to carry out a manoeuvre in Pewsey, Wiltshire.
Mr Hughes, 61, of Raffin Lane, Pewsey, denies acting in a manner likely to endanger aircraft. The case continues.
Lt Higgins was flying with trainee pilot Bombardier Henry Luck when he spotted Mr Hughes on 9 December 2009.
Prosecutor Justin Gau told jurors at Salisbury Crown Court: "They saw the defendant's Land Rover driving underneath the helicopter itself.
'Intentionally driven' "It remained there and then drove off a few yards and the defendant was seen gesticulating angrily and making signs that the vehicle should depart.
"It was clear and quite intentional the Land Rover had been driven at the helicopter."
Mr Gau added that had the helicopter been hit by the car "a fatal crash would have occurred".
The helicopter had taken off from Middle Wallop airbase in Hampshire on a route which was used by the Army Air Corps every three months.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/image...12479886-1.jpg Lt Higgins told the court he saw Mr Hughes' Land Rover beneath his helicopter
As the helicopter approached the field, Mr Gau said, Lt Higgins dropped to 20ft and then carried out safety checks before dropping to 5ft.
It was as the helicopter descended to 5ft that the Land Rover was driven towards them and they had to take evasive action, Mr Gau said.
Mr Hughes maintained he had not got closer than 300 metres and was only trying to get the aircraft's serial number.
"What we say he was doing was one step further than taking their details - he was telling them to get off his land."
Giving evidence, Lt Higgins said he was just about to descend to 5ft when his colleague raised the alarm.
Driver gesticulated "He suddenly said stop at about 10ft as we started to descend," the officer said.
"As soon as he said stop I looked to the direction he was looking and about half a second later I saw a Land Rover driving underneath the helicopter.
"It moved forward towards the other side of the field and stopped and the occupant gesticulated for us to depart."
But under cross-examination, Stewart Patterson, representing Hughes, suggested to Lt Higgins that he had not looked properly before descending.
He said: "If you had been keeping a proper look out before the last descent you would have seen it?"
Lt Hughes replied: "Yes, in those circumstances."

PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS AN ONGOING CASE, ANY COMMENTS OR THEORIES POSTED MAY BE CONTEMPT OF COURT.



Coldair

jamesdevice 18th Jul 2011 19:59

reminiscent of a story from Yeovilton in the early days of the Sea Harrier. The tale was that a farmer on the downs somewhere around Cerne Abbas got fed up with the noise disturbing his lambing sheep and started taking potshots with a 12-bore. A passing Jungly with marines on board saw it happen, stopped off and "taught him a lesson". Never went to court, there was no need as the problem never repeated itself

Trim Stab 18th Jul 2011 20:03

As it was a just Trabant, couldn't the Lt just have done a quick 360 and used the squirrel exhaust to melt it?

He was lucky it wasn't something like a L&nd Rov€r - that might have been serious...

aviate1138 19th Jul 2011 06:03

Inkpen Ridge Gliding Club some years ago and a shotgun carrying farmer fired a barrel at a Blanik being aerotowed out of the ridgetop field. Shot hit the elevator cable and left but a few strands to enable the pilot to land safely. The farmer got 2 years inside. Probably a lot more if the cable had been cut completely.

Would the gamekeeper have repeated his actions had he been in a shiny new Range Rover? Trabants need trashing don't they?

500N 19th Jul 2011 06:18

Would be interesting if he tried it on an Apache and the ROE were a bit different.

Splash one Trabant, farmer and part of the field.:)

.

Whenurhappy 19th Jul 2011 06:36

Perhaps the accused was playing 'Orange Force' for the day hence the Trabant...in absence of a BMP?

2Planks 19th Jul 2011 06:37

Early 90's - JFACTSU Hawk returned with a shot gun pellet in the leading edge tape of their Hawk after doing FAC training in the Peak District. The team on the ground had relayed that they thought someone was shooting at them.

Flyt3est 19th Jul 2011 08:03

Not sure if it's an urban myth, but the best one I heard was the Police speed radar locking on to a Tornado, and the plane identifying the radar as hostile and engaging defence systems.. Wasn't there a complaint from the police, which drew a highly amusing retort from the RAF..??

AGS Man 19th Jul 2011 08:15

Another Gamekeeper who thinks Squirrels are Vermin

Trogger 19th Jul 2011 08:28


Not sure if it's an urban myth...
snopes.com: Police Radar Prompts Missile

teeteringhead 19th Jul 2011 08:43

A well known farmer living adjacent to a secret helicopter base in Shropshire was once silly enough to 'phone OC Ops to complain about night flying overflying his house.

I say "silly enough", because his rant included "... and if they don't stop I'll take my 12 bore to them!" or words to that effect.

Cue OC Ops 'phoning West Mercia's finest, who rapidly appear and relieve said farmer of weapons ...... and shred his firearms certificate.....

Result! :ok:

sisemen 19th Jul 2011 09:46

I think that the truly silly thing is the PPRuNe habit of changing l a n d r o v e r to trabant.

Makes an absolute mockery of this story and this sort of childish behaviour ought to be stopped now. The management are quite fond of belting us posters around the ear when something is posted which displeases them. How about some reciprocity?

Not Long Here 19th Jul 2011 09:51

"What we say he was doing was one step further than taking their details - he was telling them to get off his land."

So who actually owned the land? And who gave the clearance for the helo ops in that particular field?

diginagain 19th Jul 2011 09:57

If the field is used regularly, as implied, the land owner would have given express permission to do so. These areas are notified as OOB when necessary. Then you're relying on the Duty Stude to get his briefing up-to-speed, and not be hung-over from the training session the night before.

MG 19th Jul 2011 10:26

He hadn't landed. No permission required.

I was flying near Boulmer once and flew over a gameshoot that wasn't NOTAM'd (Believe me, I rechecked twice once I'd landed) and one of the shooters raised his shotgun to the ac. Once we landed for the refuel at Boulmer, which was only 5 mins away, we called the RAF Police who called Northumbria Police. After the local police had chatted with the gameshoot, the deal struck was that we wouldn't press charges if they didn't make a low-flying complaint. We had nothing to worry about on that front but we felt that the point had been made.

glad rag 19th Jul 2011 10:28

How to win friends and influence people indeed.

Does the military have the RIGHT to arbitrarily use ones private property as their own playing field. [no pun intended]

teeteringhead 19th Jul 2011 10:38

Amazingly glad rag, although you own the land (and down to the centre of the Earth, should you be lucky enough to strike oil) you don't own the airspace above it!

While (I guess) this was meant to stop you charging Sqeezy Jet for overflight rights, as I understand it there's no minimum height. So legally (which is not necessarily sensibly), if properly authorised, and within an LFA, you can fly anywhere (ish), so long as you don't land.

That said, there is usually (and has to be for landing) an agreement between landowner and user. Which there normally is around rotary Stations, cos we couldn't function without them.

As I used to say in briefings:

1. Helicopters are not much use if they can only land at airfields.

2. MoD doesn't own much in the way of fields, cliffs and holes in woods!

jamesdevice 19th Jul 2011 10:53

I sometimes wonder at the sense of those involved though. They almost seem to be asking for trouble.
Its not unusual to see Wokkas at lowish level over the east edge of Morecambe Bay - sometimes overflying the wildlife reserves (e.g. Leighton Moss) and they have a heck of an effect on the birds there. Its only a matter of time before someone gets a pinkfoot goose or other large bird through the cockpit
Its only the helicopters that cause the problem though - not even the Lancaster + two Spits in formation raise a scream from the birdlife.

glad rag 19th Jul 2011 11:08

Thanks for the clarification teeter.:ok:

Unchecked 19th Jul 2011 11:22

I disagree with 'asking for trouble'. We all know where helos have to operate to stay safe and we all appreciate where they need to practise this. A Low flying chart is splurged in all manner of red markings - including nature reserves - that every helo operator knows he has to stay away from and by what margin. That's before a single notam has been checked and plotted, or a local area avoid as notified by those that live in heavily used areas, who are happy to have them there as long ad they stay away from certain places. When this process is all complete, what they have left to 'play' in is not a great deal of airspace. My experience of low flying in helicopters is that nearly all the people I've flown over are very happy to see us, unless a frantic wave of the hand is now a rather more rude gesture than I think ! Of course, understandably, it's not for everyone - some lodge a complaint (correct), some raise a shotgun or charge with a land rover (incorrect).

jamesdevice 19th Jul 2011 16:46

I think maybe you misunderstand my comment re "asking for trouble": I wasn't thinking in terms of disturbance to the wildlife or people (which is usually transient), but more in terms of risk to the aircraft.
For instance the route flown locally by the Wokkas takes them within a mile or so of the largest gull colony in the UK, over a nature reserve stuffed full of thousands of geese, out over Morecambe Bay (ten of thousands more geese and waders), over another wetland reserve full of large birds) and then up one of the Furness/Cartmel valleys and over a large lake (more ducks and geese)
It would be hard to plot a route more likely to cause a multiple bird strike, and having seen several "near misses" I'm sure its only a matter of time

Chicken Leg 19th Jul 2011 17:01

Jamesdevice,

You're speaking with local knowledge available. When crews plan a route, they generally plan to avoid certain areas that are highlighted by various markings on a chart. Although they can then go to various documents to find out more detail about those 'avoids', they won't know that some of those areas contain:


the largest gull colony in the UK, over a nature reserve stuffed full of thousands of geese, out over Morecambe Bay (ten of thousands more geese and waders), over another wetland reserve full of large birds) and then up one of the Furness/Cartmel valleys and over a large lake (more ducks and geese)
Every known bird strike results in an incident report, so if the route you describe is indeed utilised heavily by rotary aircraft and unless multiple reports are being ignored, I can only come to the conclusion that the actual (not theoretical) threat isn't as high as you state?

bingofuel 19th Jul 2011 17:08

As every story has two sides, has anyone else considered that the driver may have been driving across his field when the helicopter descended nearly on top of him?

The crew have stated they started a descent to 5ft from 20ft then had to abort when one of them saw the vehicle just before it passed underneath them. Either they did not check very well or the vehicle must have driven at some speed towards them. I am not saying who is right or wrong, or where blame lies proportionally, but lets remember the big picture before we decide guilt.

ShyTorque 19th Jul 2011 17:32


before we decide guilt.
That's not our perogative, in any case. As it's sub judice we should leave this one alone for now.

Tankertrashnav 19th Jul 2011 20:32

I wonder if thats correct, Shy Torque.

I think we need Flying Lawyer or someone from the same profession to advise here. I'm pretty sure that an ongoing trial can be commented on by the public. Those directly concerned, such as jury members, would be forbidden to discuss the case, but I am pretty sure we outsiders can express an opinion as long as we dont break the libel laws.

But there, I may well be wrong, which is why it would be good to have some input from a professional.

Lima Juliet 19th Jul 2011 21:15

Using "Land-Rover" works for anyone fed up with PPrune auto-correcting to Trabant :mad:

MightyGem 19th Jul 2011 21:43


Then you're relying on the Duty Stude to get his briefing up-to-speed
You're also relying on the instructor not to forget afterwards. :O :(

parabellum 19th Jul 2011 21:55

When I went through Wallop it was breeding pheasants and partridge that had to be avoided, usually NOTAMED, often after a complaint. Most of the instructors lived locally in MOD hirings and knew where the sensitive areas were, between them they had quite a large part of Hampshire and Wiltshire covered and passed this on to their students.

The report mentioned that helicopters went this way every three months, which looks as though it may have been the tactical exercise that comes at the end of a course and goes with the 'final fumble', possibly local knowledge not so up to date?

jamesdevice 20th Jul 2011 00:46

Chicken Leg

believe me, the risk is there - I've seen a few near misses in which the birds have risen en-masse ahead of the helicopter.
In my view its an accident waiting to happen. I agree to some extent its "local knowledge", but that doesn't mean the risk is acceptable

500N 20th Jul 2011 02:42

Question re birds / planes.

If birds and birds "en mass" are such a problem, why was the Wash (Norfolk) used as a bombing range / low fly area years ago when it has a very high concentration of birds and birds in flocks.

Genuine question, I used to spend a fair amount of time in the area.

.

Al R 20th Jul 2011 07:30


.. and the occupant gesticulated for us to depart.
How thoughtful and friendly. Was he waving a hankie?

Dengue_Dude 20th Jul 2011 08:53


How thoughtful and friendly. Was he waving a hankie?
Christ, if they were flying rotary wing, he should have offered a glass of sake and a sword too . . . (to go with the other blades).

All those wingey things whipping around . . . drag hinges . . . gyroscopic effects and so on . . . it'll all end in tears.

Unchecked 20th Jul 2011 10:14

So snotting around at low level on approach to sites around the Shia flats or the Helmand River - there are bird concentrations there but tactically you need to go low. It has to be done. The crew know, wherever they are in the world, roughly where and when the birds are going to be about, all it requires is an even more studious lookout. If a bird hits then hey ho, ce la vie, but they rarely do and in all my years of flying I've not yet come anywhere hitting a large flock. They disperse quickly, we travel relatively slowly yet manoeuvre rapidly due to the extra lookout !

jamesdevice 20th Jul 2011 11:27

its actually an interesting comparison to watch: the different effects between rotary and fixed wing aircraft on birds
The fixed wings rarely seem to affect them, even at low level, while they will rise at the APPROACH of a helicopter (not the passing of the helicopter). It seems to be the "thwock" from the blades that does it
This was very obvious on one occasion when I watched an air-ambulance land near the Kent Estuary (east end of Morecambe Bay) - it raised a flock of thousands of waders and was lucky not to get hit. Thirty minutes or so later it was still on the ground, the birds had settled and the Lancaster plus two Spits flew down the estuary at very low level - and nothing moved. They totally ignored the combined sound of the six merlins. Yet when the helo took off again, the birds all rose again. All it would take is one curlew through the engine...

parabellum 20th Jul 2011 11:57

I was told that both birds and animals see helicopters as birds of prey and will scatter quickly, fixed wing they don't see as a threat.

cockney steve 20th Jul 2011 12:57

I'm with Bingofuel, on this one.

Overhead vision is severely restricted in the farmer's favourite mini-lorry.
Not hard to think he was somewhat traumatised to be traversing HIS field and the big tin bird-of- prey swoops down on him. :eek:

20feet, plenty of clearance....5feet...it's not going to end happily

re-local knowledge,- Don't aircrew even informally warn each other , then?
Sure as eggs is eggs, if Plod sets up a radar-trap, all the local road-users contact and warn each other......and you don't crash 'cos you've gone through a radar trap.

Tankertrashnav 20th Jul 2011 17:36


Sure as eggs is eggs, if Plod sets up a radar-trap, all the local road-users contact and warn each other......
Dissenting voice here, steve. When yet another feckwit speeds past my house and trips the speed camera up the road I rub my hands in satisfaction that there's another £60 (or whatever) in the kitty. And that's a dayglo one you can see for half a mile! Wouldnt mind a few more concealed ones, especially aimed at weekend bikers round here who never knowingly stick to any speed limits.

coldair 20th Jul 2011 18:08

Found Guilty
 
Fron the Daily Mirror;

Man guilty of driving at helicopter - mirror.co.uk


http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/ju...-768621222.jpg Malcolm Hughes (Pic: PA)

A gamekeeper has been convicted of endangering an aircraft after driving straight at a low-flying helicopter.
Malcolm Hughes, 61, could have killed the two pilots when he drove his Land Rover at the Army Air Corps Squirrel helicopter.
Pilot Lieutenant Andrew Higgins was seconds from dropping to just 5ft above the ground when his co-pilot spotted Hughes's vehicle and disaster was averted.
Advertisement >>


Hughes, of Raffin Lane, Pewsey, Wiltshire, denied a single charge of acting in a manner likely to endanger aircraft.
However, a jury found him guilty after a three-day trial at Salisbury Crown Court.
Prosecutor Justin Gau had told jurors that Hughes had driven underneath the helicopter.
"It remained there and then drove off a few yards and the defendant was seen gesticulating angrily and making signs that the vehicle should depart," Mr Gau said.
"It was clear and quite intentional the Land Rover had been driven at the helicopter."
Mr Gau added: "Had it not been spotted, it is quite clear that the rotor of the helicopter would have been hit by the car and a fatal crash would have occurred."
Lt Higgins was teaching trainee pilot Bombardier Henry Luck low-flying manoeuvres over farmland at Wootton Rivers, near Pewsey, on the afternoon of December 9, 2009.
The helicopter had taken off from the Middle Wallop airbase in Hampshire and flown towards Pewsey, on a route used by the Army Air Corps every three months.
Lt Higgins said he was just about to descend to 5ft when Bmdr Luck raised the alarm.
"He suddenly said 'Stop' at about 10ft as we started to descend," the officer said.
"As soon as he said stop, I looked to the direction he was looking and about half a second later I saw a Land Rover driving underneath the helicopter.
"It moved forward towards the other side of the field and stopped and the occupant gesticulated for us to depart."
Lt Higgins added: "It was a bit of shock at the time. However, he was vigorously moving his arm out of the window."
The pilot maintained that, had he not taken evasive action, the helicopter would have struck the Land Rover.
"In the worst case, the tail rotor would have hit the vehicle and it would have resulted in the vehicle crashing," he added.
After being arrested, Hughes told police that he had never driven under the helicopter and the closest he had been was 300 metres away.
He said he drove towards the helicopter because he wanted to get close enough to take the aircraft's serial number and report it to the authorities for low flying - a just as his employer had told him to do.
Judge Douglas Field adjourned the case until August 24 when sentencing will take place at Swindon Crown Court.

coldair 2nd Sep 2011 16:09

Gamekeeper gets suspended term for driving at helicopter
 
From the BBC;

BBC News - Gamekeeper gets suspended term for driving at helicopter



Gamekeeper gets suspended term for driving at helicopter
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/image...12479866-1.jpg Malcolm Hughes claimed he was trying to take down the aircraft's registration
A gamekeeper from Wiltshire has been given a suspended five-month jail term after he drove his Land Rover at a low-flying Army helicopter.
Malcolm Hughes, 61, of Pewsey, was told he could have killed the two crew members in the incident in 2009.
The pilot, who was flying at 5ft (1.5m) at one point, avoided a collision when he spotted Hughes' vehicle.
Hughes, who said he was trying to see the aircraft's registration, was sentenced at Swindon Crown Court.
He was also told to carry out 120 hours' unpaid work and pay £1,000 prosecution costs.
Hughes was found guilty of endangering an aircraft, at an earlier hearing.
'Quite intentional'
The jury heard that Lt Andrew Higgins had been flying an Army Air Corps Squirrel helicopter at about 20ft (6m) after taking off from Middle Wallop in Hampshire with trainee pilot Bombardier Henry Luck.
The pilot carried out safety checks before beginning to drop to 5ft (1.5m) when he spotted Hughes.
Prosecutor Justin Gau said Hughes, of Raffin Lane, drove his Land Rover beneath the helicopter and gestured "angrily" that it should leave.
The pilot had to take evasive action to avoid Hughes' vehicle, the court heard.
"It was clear and quite intentional the Land Rover had been driven at the helicopter."
Following his arrest, he told police that he had not driven under the helicopter and the closest he had been 300m (985ft) away.
Passing sentence, Judge Douglas Field, said he was satisfied that Hughes was not trying to hit the helicopter deliberately.
"Tremendous damage would have been caused, putting the lives of the occupants of the helicopter and yourself at risk," he said.
Hughes' sentence was suspended for 12 months.

coldair 2nd Sep 2011 16:56

A little bit more info from the Wiltshire Gazette and Herald;

Pewsey gamekeeper escapes jail after driving at helicopter (From The Wiltshire Gazette and Herald)


Pewsey gamekeeper escapes jail after driving at helicopter
Gamekeeper Malcolm Hughes, who drove his Land Rover straight at a low-flying helicopter, has avoided jail today.
Hughes, 61, could have killed two pilots when he drove his vehicle at the Army Air Corps Squirrel helicopter.
Pilot Lt Andrew Higgins was seconds from dropping to just 5ft above the ground when his co-pilot spotted Hughes' Land Rover and disaster was averted.
Hughes, of Raffin Lane, had denied a single charge of acting in a manner likely to endanger aircraft, but was convicted in July after a three-day trial.
Today, at Swindon Crown Court, Hughes received a five-month prison sentence suspended for a year and was told to carry out 120 hours'unpaid work and pay £1,000 prosecution costs.
Passing sentence, Judge Douglas Field said Hughes had risked the lives of the pilot and trainee, as well as his own.
"I must stress the training exercise undertaken was completely lawful," the judge told Hughes.
"Having seen this helicopter you entered the field where it was situated in your Land Rover and you drove at the helicopter.
"I am quite satisfied you didn't drive at it with the intention of hitting the helicopter.
"I am prepared to accept your motive was to get its details so the flight could be properly reported."
Judge Field said it was fortunate the trainee pilot had spotted Hughes' Land Rover and raised the alarm.
"Tremendous damage would have been caused, putting the lives of the occupants of the helicopter and yourself at risk," the judge added.
Stewart Patterson, defending, said Hughes risked losing his shotgun and fire arms licences, which could affect his livelihood.
"He has accepted responsibility for his actions," the barrister said.
"The assumption was when he saw the aircraft rise it was on his way and instead it hovered there intending to return to the ground.
"It is a one-off occasion unlikely to be repeated because Mr Hughes is aware the unexpected can occur - and that lesson has been learnt."
Mr Patterson added: "He still has his livelihood but without a licence to shoot he cannot control vermin."
During the trial, jurors heard Hughes had driven underneath the helicopter.
Prosecutor Justin Gau said: "Had it not been spotted, it is quite clear the rotor of the helicopter would have been hit by the car and a fatal crash would have occurred."
Lt Higgins was teaching trainee pilot Bombardier Henry Luck low-flying manoeuvres over farmland at Wootton Rivers on December 9 2009.
The helicopter had taken off from the Middle Wallop airbase in Hampshire and flown towards Pewsey on a route used by the Army Air Corps every three months.
Lt Higgins said he was just about to descend to 5ft when Bmdr Luck raised the alarm.
"He suddenly said 'stop' at about 10ft as we started to descend," the officer said.
"As soon as he said stop I looked to the direction he was looking and about half a second later I saw a Land Rover driving underneath the helicopter.
"It moved forward towards the other side of the field and stopped, and the occupant gesticulated for us to depart."
Lt Higgins added: "It was a bit of shock at the time. However, he was vigorously moving his arm out of the window."
The pilot maintained that had he not take evasive action the helicopter would have struck the Land Rover.
"In the worst case the tail rotor would have hit the vehicle and it would have resulted in the vehicle crashing," he added.
After being arrested, Hughes told police he had never driven under the helicopter and the closest he had been was 300 metres (984ft) away.
He said he had driven towards the helicopter because he wanted to get close enough to take the aircraft's serial number and report it to the authorities for low flying - just as his employer had told him to do.
Hughes left court today without commenting.





http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/re.../?type=display Pewsey gamekeeper Malcolm Hughes


http://oas.newsquestdigital.co.uk/5/...Segements=D|T|


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:24.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.