Fox: RAF Will Not Merge With Other Services
 

Defense News: Fox: RAF Will Not Merge With Other Services

British Defence Secretary Liam Fox has ended speculation that the Royal Air Force could be merged with the other armed services.

In a speech to military and industry leaders in London on July 13, Fox said he has rejected advice urging him to merge air operations fully into other services.

"I am clear that the RAF makes a definable and unique contribution to Britain's defense - a contribution that it would be wrong dispense with," Fox said at the Royal United Services Institute Air Power Conference.

The defense secretary said Britain could not afford to lose the doctrinal understanding of air power and its effects, which is burned deep into collective fiber of the force.

"The value of the RAF is not confined to history - far from it," he said.

The Ministry of Defence recently rolled out a series of proposed structural reforms that stopped short of merging the armed services but said that it intended to create a joint forces command led by a four-star general.

That command will likely pull together some joint assets such as intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition and reconnaissance (ISTAR).

Fox said that joint operations are in the "very DNA" of the force.

Doug Barrie, senior air analyst at the International Institute of Strategic Studies, said Fox had taken the right decision. "The use of air power is both served through sustaining an independent organization geared to operating often in a joint environment. Merger would have ill-served the U.K.'s military capability," Barrie said.

Fox went on to praise the role of the Typhoon fighter in the air campaign against Moammar Gadhafi's regime in Libya and said the aircraft's performance was impressing potential export customers, including India, where the jet is in a head-to-head competition with France's Rafale for a multibillion-pound deal.

That's it then, death knell just sounded!:suspect:

No doubt they have taken "Legal Advice" to come up with this denial.

Is this similarly confidence-building to a Minister in the pooh being given the "complete confidence" of the PM!

That ties in nicely with the rumour about AH going to the RAF and the FAA going in 2 years. Maybe all the AAC too?

Ivan,

God I hope not. The wailing and whining from the green and dark blue on this site would make the recent moaning about Harrier look like reasoned argument...;)

Before long we'll only have a couple of helicopters and they'll be on loan from Bristow......

Knock yourself out with taking over the helo's; a HELQUEST will be winging your way to ensure you embark for my 7 month deployment, and associated work up period before hand. I don't care what colour uniform you wear, you're still coming to sea with me!

What else would Fox say at an Air power conference.....you can apply just the same logic to the FAA and the AAC - perhaps Fox needs to tell this to the RAF!

Ahh Government speak, does that mean the Other Services can still Merge with the RAF and then we will rename it???

The Melchester Rovers Board of Directors can confirm that the Manager continues to enjoy our complete confidence...

The way things are going, you won't have a great deal to offer in any merger. We'll wait for you to fold and then pick through any remaining worthwhile assets.

I love it when the fisheads and pongos trot out this 'disband the RAF' guff. If the decision is taken and the assets are divided, there will be noone to operate them. I'd sooner draw the dole than get seen off like the other 2 services. Some of the posters on this forum are intent on a race to the bottom of the scrapheap....:ugh:

I like the idea of beoming part of the Army. I would get a smashing new set of uniforms and would be able to go public on my fetish for dressing up like Rupert Bear.
I wouldn't have to think for myself anymore because you never question the boss and when I've feathered my nest for a few years I could join the other Army officers by leaving as soon as possible and get a job in the city!
Sounds good to me.:ok:

Sorry Fatter Gator, your view on Army officers is based on first hand experience or a pathetically naive view based on prejudices that may have been relevant many years ago.

Well done on achieving dick post of the week ward; you must be very proud...

Wow, the RAF complaining.....what a surprise.

Ivan I didn't think it would be as limited at that. Nutloose, exactly what I was thinking. An the RAF would adopt the beret as standard head dress and wear cabbage kit. Those in UK could wear blue cabbage kit.

Maxibon

Just to confirm, you ARE agreeing with fatty gator then?

quote 'your view on Army officers is based on first hand experience' unquote

FATTY - looks like you got a bite :E

Fatter, you seem to have the size of it although my colonel would have needed an outsize bear outfit.

You forgot to mention retiring at least as a major or more likely a lt col and then getting a job as a consultant for the MOD selling them a reprinted copy of an obscure JSP they had already got.

Fatter,

Don't forget you get to bring your fat, wheezy, and flatulent dog to the office as well, as opposed to the other services where they only get taken to the Summer Ball!

So ...... now we've had a clear promise ....

...... from a politician ......


...... that something won't happen ......


..... then obviously it won't!!! ;)

So to summarize the RAF post SDSR …
Ground Trades –

Pretty much all similar to the Army – Cook, Doc’c Nurses etc – yep ARMY have them in more abundance. Why bother have duplicated training and support systems for both?


Aircraft -

Typhoon – AD Fighter that will soon (or is) doing CAS – In support of the ARMY

Helicopters – Used to Transport ARMY personnel in the field

SAR Flights – Doesn’t count as soon to be privatized (maybe)

AT- Transports the ARMY

ISTAR – Operated by the RAF on behalf of the ARMY

That leaves AWACS (I am told that it’s Radar has a very good look down capability which may be useful to the ARMY) and AAR Tankers – which could refuel the above which in turn support the ARMY.

Personally, I think it will happen within the next ten years. It seems senseless to me that a service which is pretty much fully committed to supporting another service should be independent. Someone upstairs will realize that there would be much savings to be made in streamlining the management of the RAF and making it a Service within the Army. Hopefully the Brown Jobs will allow an RAF of the British Army to have a degree of Autonomy that will allow them do things like directly recruit and train etc.

To say that all the RAF does is support the army is extremely ignorant and shows a deep misunderstanding on your behalf.

Thanks althenick, I needed a good laugh, top comedy!!!

I think unchecked thought that you were serious!!!!!!

It appears that without the RAF, the ARMY cannot go anywhere or do anything, surely it would be far more efficient to merge the ARMY into the RAF to make best use of these resources.

Do any of our Canadian friends wish to comment on the great merger theory? :8 As I recall from history, the Canadian forces merged into one big happy family a few decades ago.

Care to share a few thoughts for our friends across the pond regarding the pros and cons?

(Grabs bucket of popcorn, sits back ... )

If the RAF joins the Army it should surely be as a separate flying regiment.

That way we can have our own rules, regulations, uniforms, abbreviations, bases, ranks*, etc. Only problem is I don't think any shops near me sell red trousers.

*If the Cavalry can have Corporal of Horse we can stick with Flight Sergeants etc. I've no problem with the O's adopting Army ranks - it'll save explaining that Flight Lieutenant is the same as Captain - except PA Flt Lt, more like a Lt Col where it's important - at the bank..

High Spirits - I think what the Fishheads and Pongos actually say is "Disband the Crabs".

Shakedown, work-up and operational deployment? Nah, that's over nine months away at sea every 15-18 month cycle. Routine stuff for the FAA but I can't see many Crabs wearing it.

Best keep them separate (and intact).

Most of the FAA I worked with had less sea time than the chinny boys.

No t'was early 90s

I'm not surprised if you mean the air bases in Iraq and Afghanistan over the past few years but that's not where the Lynx HAS8 and Merlin HM1 ships' flights have been operating.

And it's not like the FA2/GR7/9 embarkation, where you only used the fixed wing elements for a couple of days (generally on an exercise) and then left them alone for a couple of weeks. I am expecting our flight to fly every day (standfast maintenance days, defect rectification and shi*ty wx) of our deployment. Our work-up will see a similar tempo, with tasking varying from their core role, to the more usual "secondary roles" to some weird and wacky stuff I'm going to ask if they can do.

In fact, I'd love to see a RAF RW pilot embark on a "small ships flight", I suspect you'd love it (but maybe not the OOD duties!) and you'd save a load of dosh....

Mmmmm it's that great that just about every inter service transfer is towards the RAF, don't see very many going the other way !

Says it all :ok:

You don't suppose it has something to do with the RN having lost FW a/c while the RAF still has them, do you? After all, the RAF's so attractive otherwise...;)

There, fixed if for you!

Transferring into the RAF? You should see the number of applications here in Army recruitment from a large number of trainee pilots that the RAF recently sacked.

Will they have to go to Sandhurst and be taught how to be Officers?

Little room at the mo and yes, RMAS will be required; something is required to unteach the HKLP ingrained at the RAFC. Soldier first, then a pilot...

By this flawed logic, I presume you are also endorsing the formation of a single Royal Regiment of Squaddies encompassing all of the existing Corps and Regiments, as it is senseless for one Corps/Regiment which is pretty much fully committeed to supporting another Corps/Regiment to be independent.