Why would they come back? The civvie market is picking up and they have redundancy burning a hole in their back pocket.

Together with 300 million in flying training investment. :ugh:

Well, I gave back my schilling over a month ago after over a quarter of a century in service. Virtually everyone I spoke to, with a few exceptions, was envious of my decision to leave and were considering it themselves. Reasons for staying ranged from being 'afraid' to being stuck in the CEA trap and having to stay in a few more years to see their sprogs through boarding school.

I have never seen things so bad and there are those posting on here that say, oh well, leave, the grass is not greener. Like many of the management, they have fingers in their ears and are saying 'la, la, la, I'm not listening!'

This will be worse than the 1990s, with three tranches of redundancy hanging over them, people are already in the leaving mindset. There was probably an aspiration for a managed decline in manpower levels but people are not stupid and will not wait for the axe to fall. They will take matters into their own hands.

Me? Very happy thank you!

If that's Gen then I reckon I made the cut by 48hrs.... :eek:

It is gen just heard from a mate PVR time 12 months

Well that will invoke a surge of PVRs from the General List cadre; every extra month served beyond 1 April 12 is another month on 0% flying pay.....:uhoh:

Not good. Have they altered any other PVR times - more specifically Sgt NCA? I've heard there may well be a big black hole looming in manning numbers.

If the PVR time is 12 months at zero flying pay someone, who if they could stand the stigma, would be better off failing the fitness test. Out in a year with no reduction in flying pay and possibly no pension abatement. Just a thought.
Obviously i'm not advocating this as a course of action.

Boeing warns airlines that time's running out for training - Flightglobal, 22 Jun 11

Worldwide, it would seem that:

Sounds like I PVR'd in time a month ago! I'm out in Nov and can't be happier!

What stigma?

Better to be a jovial fatty than a gaunt gym queen.

Anyone got sight of this IBN? Nothing on the Airspace website as yet. I now have a date from manning that suits me, so have got in just in time. Best of luck to those who are wishing to leave.

Whilst most will be full tilt towards pastures new i wish you all well, but if i may add caution to the mix. Talking from experience be under no illusions the wheels will not come off in absence from the seats, nor "will it show em" because your experience has gone, history dictates big wheels will keep on turning. Future employers will not beat a path to your door because your ex-military, all this qualifies and show's is that you can set an alarm clock and get up and dress yourself on time.
However that said, talking from experience i have been out longer than i was in (compulsory under options for change mid 90's) and never looked back, but don't use your PVR as a protest vote, cause the big house down the old smoke don't know you from the next bloke, your given a number for a reason.:hmm:

Yeah, the IBN is up on the Airspace website now. Dated 22 Jun 11, basically says what's been said above - Early Termination (ET) Waiting Times have reverted to 12 months for pilots of OF3 and below. ETs already staffed etc will remain at 6 months....

:hmm:

As someone who has been out of the RAF for over 15 years now, could someone please explain what all these modern terms - like OF3, SO2, SO3 etc - mean? In my day we just had flt lt, sqn ldr, wg cdr etc.

Google is your friend ;)

The OF numbers refer to the NATO codes for each rank when judging corresponding ranks. OF = Officer OR = Other Ranks

Table for UK ranks is at this linky

SO1,2,3 etc refer to grades of Staff Officers. An SO1 is a Staff Offficer post filled by a wg cdr/cdr/lt col (OF4); an SO2 is a Staff post filled by sqn ldr/lt cdr/maj (OF3); and SO3 post is filled by a junior officer (or sometimes a WO)).

Many people confuse the 2 systems thinking that SO1 refers to all wg cdrs. It doesn't, it only refers to those in staff appointments not those in command.

That said why an RAF IBN refering to RAF pilots needed to use the term OF3 escapes me - we only have one OF3 rank that is squadron leader.

Because it was written by some desk-driving chimp who spent time at SHAPE? :hmm:

Straight to the point as ever, MrB...:ok:

No doubt you're correct though.

SHAPE? How very eighties..... :cool:

CB

Thanks!

1.3V

I couldn't agree more. I did my 12 months PVR and got out 2 months ago a few days after my 37th birthday to get the pension. Loved my time in but time to go and many now seem stuck in and paralysed by indecision. I'd say if you are no longer happy with it then leave and don't wait. I'd also agree that PVR'ing is not an effective way of 'showing em'; frankly, no-one cares.

SLLC

PS Can confirm, colour of grass is a deeper hue of green. But then I'm not in the airlines :ok:

Good luck to everyone PVR'ing. Whilst the grass is known not to be greener, I haven't regretted leaving for a moment, albeit at my 38/16.

People often ask me if I miss the RAF. I always state that I miss the PEOPLE - but not the job. I miss the job I joined, not the job I left. I had a wonderful time, but left at the right time. I can honestly say I don't miss spending most of the year in the desert - or with the threat of deployment to the desert.

There is SO much out here, as long as you take a leap of faith.

You don't regret the things you've done, you regret the things you haven't done.

Overtorque, I think you are right, most of us miss the type of people and left at the right time, when ever we left.

Change has been there all the time I was in, the prop transports going. The real fighters going, the bombers going, the cold war ending, numbers declining, bases closing,

New highly capable aircraft, tacevals for war being replaced by war itself

All the time change.

LOL!

Luverly drift here of what it Was like to what it Is like now.

From what I understand of the Tryphoon and its intricate superior systems, we now have a QRA where the jet itself can just "refuse" to go?

"...wouldn't have happened in my day!"

Am I the only one 'a bit miffed' by the wording of the announcement? We have the following options available; return of service, FRI's, pay rises etc - but we've chosen the zero cost option that costs us nothing and screws you over the most..... Clearly I didn't expect them to just start handing out the cash but why dress up the bad news with 'what you could have won'.

Just another example of how in touch they are and ultimately how much they care.

From the IBN...

He or she must be a very popular bunny for anonymous calls asking for someone who's name rhymes with clucking anchor...

:p

CPL Clott

Devil's advocate
 

This latest boost to morale has made me think about the 'new' PVR terms with regards to flying pay. I wonder if anyone has though of a legal challenge to the fact that if you PVR they hold you in employment for a year but reduce your salary drastically...Contrast this with a PAS chap who doen't receive flying pay, but did receive a massive gratuity to stay. If he leaves, no reduction in flying pay, and as long as he's done 5 years, no cash back on the gratuity. Seems largely unfair to me...

And further, if you have top or enhanced rate FP, and a healthy mortgage, plus family commitments, you may not actually be able to afford to resign. This would seem to me to be an infringement of an individuals human rights as you are then held in your employment against your will by essentially a cash trap...Not that I am usually an advocate of such EU bull$h!t but the European Court of Human Rights would surely have a field day with this?

Just my idle musings on a slack friday..

You can always give them a month's notice and walk.

It would probably b*gger up any pension or gratuity rights though.

FJ2ME:

Just a couple of observations on your musing...

1. Since it is oft stated that FP is there as a tool for retention it will be argued that, once you have PVR'ed, then the lure of the FP has failed and there is no longer any point paying it.

2. There are millions of people worldwide that are in employment that is, for them, a "cash trap".

Bet 'manning' are glad they sacked 170 pilots now. Hope that the short sighted idiots are regretting it as they view the exodus.

"PAS chap who doen't receive flying pay, but did receive a massive gratuity to stay."


If only it was so. Gratuity is 3 x Pension @ 55

Hardly a position unique to the military! I've always seen the 12-month notice etc requirements to be more open to legal challenge as they do hold people in a job longer than the EU norm, but I'm sure some sort of national security caveat is in place to avoid a lucky chancer winning a one month precedent in court!

Manning didn't sack the 170 u/t pilots; the RAF did. I suspect that Manning were commenting that it was perhaps not the most enlightened decision. However, you never know!

Duncs:ok:

Any advances today? I gather there were quite a few yesterday.

"1. Since it is oft stated that FP is there as a tool for retention it will be argued that, once you have PVR'ed, then the lure of the FP has failed and there is no longer any point paying it."

That also applies to people in their last year till end of commission. Why pay people a retention bonus if they are leaving?

The answer, of course, being that if you started trying that then everybody would resign or stage a coup.

Duncan. In case you missed it, 'manning' represent the RAF. They are all the same to me. Short sighted shysters who are every bit responsible for the upcoming crisis. Career squealing yes men who'd kiss any amount of senior officer puckered butt to get to staff college. There are 170 would be pilots who may have recourse to legal action over the way they have been treated.

Rumour has it that there were several today. Have the flood gates opened?

Are they short of SAR pilots yet?

I'm willing to return on LC or FTRS terms at a very attractive price (when compared with spending £2m to train another SK pilot for 5 years RoS).

Iain

Bored with sitting on the ground

Maybe Princes William or Harry will PVR; now that WOULD put the cat among the pigeons...
...and Sven can have his chopper back.

I find it most amusing that the tone of comments regarding PVR has remained stable for years whilst the service roller-coaster has forgotten that you have to go up now and again to maintain momentum. Manning will be / are quite draconian in their reponse to PVR for that is exactly what they want. I am unfortunate to be living on a stn that probably has the highest rate of PVR in the RAF at the present time and everybody I have spoken to regarding either PVR or upcoming scheduled exit dates have all said that there is no will whatsoever from Manning to try and change their minds; and these people have jobs that simply will not feature on any redundancy proposals and some have skillsets that will most definately be missed by their peers. In short: The system does not care, so "do-one" if you are going.

FWIW, the inevitable feeling of low value or lack of worth is not one that is shared by the guys and girls left to prop up whats left and there are gaps in operational and training capability inbound that will hurt like hell. For those that go: Bon-Voyage and I sincerely hope that the pastures new and ripe with a tone of green to your liking. For those that stay behind, mines a Stella!