Surely in 1980 all you had to do to get out was admit to being gay (no proof was required) without all the standing for election rubbish....




As to why so many Tristar captains are PVRing, could it be because they have been told that they are highly likely to get a ground tour following the imminent folding of their fleet?

Sorry I thought that you meant you were not required to produce your boy friend but I misread it. :hmm:

When all 'manning' can find is possibly a King Air QFI slot and you're viewed as a professionally attractive proposition by a major airline, the decision is largely made for you. Either go now or wait 5 years to leave with 5 years less potential airline seniority.

I'm amazed that it's taken the RAF so long to realise this.... Well no, actually I'm not :rolleyes:.

The Apr 2012 start of EASA part-FCL certainly doesn't help - and is currently causing what was recently described to me as a 'mad dash' for licence accreditation....:hmm:

Aren't all the Tristar captains PVRing because there are nice shiny A330s to fly at the same homebase with much better pay & conditions? Or are Air Tanker still only recruiting current A330 pilots?

Leon Jabachjabicz:

The Defence Review only makes an informal recommendation that the MAA should be merged into the new Defence Safety and Environmental Authority (the Defence Review gets the name wrong). That certainly doesn't mean the MAA will "die". it doesn't even mean it will merge, since it is only an informal recommendation. And there's certainly no reason why the raft of MAA RIs, etc. will suddenly change status.

For those that don't know, the new DSEA, to be set up later this year, is to be concerned with all non-aviation MoD safety and environmental matters.

U.K. To Form Land, Maritime Safety Board - Defense News

If you want to fly an A330, I'm sure there are much better opportunities available than those presented at the Oxon Airbase. A dull grey Air Tanker one or a shiny red and silver VS one ?

I think the recent activity at VS may go some way to partially disproving that theory. A red, white & blue 787 on the other hand....:E

Definately a civvie A330 is better, when you see who the flt cdrs and boss are!!

So what is the Airtanker Package then?

There have been other comments along these lines on this forum. They were all probably still at school when I joined 10 Sqn. I spent 9 very happy years on the unit. Four fantastic bosses and most of the flight commanders were great. I would like to say that one was exceptional but I am too modest :O. It is sad to hear these comments. However I always said when I escaped that all the good guys were leaving. That was 16 years ago. I guess that nothing has changed.

Ageism seems rife!
 

I love the comments about the new execs. It seems to me that the main issue is that they're all quite young. Please tell me you are basing your assessments on something more solid than the fact that they're, heaven forbid, younger than you are. I seem to recall a certain Wg Cdr Guy Gibson VC DSO* DFC* was only 26 when he led the dambusters raid. Age didn't seem to be an issue back then!
BV:rolleyes:

I am sure that there are distinguished gentlemen on this forum who have had the unenviable and challenging job of both introducing a new aircraft into service and recommissioning a Squadron. Regardless of some comments, I wish the new execs of 10 Sqn all the very best and only time will tell if they are the right personnel for the job. :hmm:

Well, all the PVRs have certainly got manning having a closer look!!

Expect a round of visits to ' get to the bottom of it all'

:ok:

Visits from manning? I am not sure why they would bother - in my experience they simply skew the relevant facts to fit their own paradigm. The RAF is becoming an ever-worse place to be...terms and conditions eroded, fewer aircraft and bases, more commitments, rampant contractorization/civilianization, fewer allowances, JPA etc etc.

Now add to the mix the fact that there are jobs 'out there' - all my mates who are leaving or have recently left, have found good flying jobs (mostly very experienced rotary guys and there are hods of positions for experienced guys out there). Out of the recent tranche of chaps let go from the rotary pipeline at Shawbury, almost ALL have been hired by Cathay. The guys who were saved and are still in are now genuinely questioning who got the shafting...The market is on the up (at least for now). Manning may say that the current upturn could reverse, and the airline/helicopter world could shrink. That's correct - that might happen. But what we know WILL happen is that the RAF will get smaller, older and ever more stretched. Life in the RAF gets worse year on year. manning do not need to do visits to ascertain this - they need to ring any chap on any squadron - if he/she is not on Det.

Then - crucially - they need to LISTEN. They need to stop dismissing people as whingers and accept that we wanted to join, and many want to be here, but people have valid opinions and manning should take heed. Life outside, at the moment, is better. More flying, better career prospects and not insignificantly, more money (a LOT more in the case of rotary guys).

Manning must know this. If they don't, they are incompetant. If they do, nothing has been done, which would make them incomp...:hmm:

It's hard to see how the (apparent) outflow can be stemmed. All the problems mentioned in the thread can, by and large, be solved with one thing - Cash. Be it more training to a variety of countries, better t&c, better allowances, better pay, better accommodation, etc. etc.

There's not enough money to fix it, though, nor enough time, is there?

Better training in more countries? Not enough people because of op tempo, and not enough airframes; both too tricky to fix.

You could improve accommodation, or make it much cheaper, but that again takes time and I don't think there are that many people leaving because of frequent postings or poor quarters.

Better T&Cs, allowances and pay just get shot down because of the op tempo and the fundamental problems; remember, every time someone mentions an FRI, people compare the extra £20k gross per year to an extra 5 years' seniority at an airline, and it seems a simple choice.

If you wanted to keep your mid-30s guys in, the only T&C change I can see working is making flying pay pensionable. But with the new "executive" stream versus "main" stream system, can anyone see any assimilation being available in the near future? If PAS is going to be closed for a while I can't see that being an option.

For an FRI to work it'd need to be 2 or 3 times larger than the last one, and you can imagine the headlines as we mix that with redundancies...!!

lets not forget that it is not just Aircrew that are leaving but among all the supporting trades as well. Making Flying pay pensionable will not stop the rot either!

5f6b,

Exactly why I said it's hard to see how they can stem the outflow - it can only be fixed by something we don't have.

If we are looking to save money why even bother trying to stem the outflow. Plenty of capable folk waiting in the wings to step up so why not let those unhappy with their lot simply walk, save a tidy sum on FRI as well.

Regarding the pilots who are PVR-ing, manning was (supposedly) working on having the correct number in 3 years time based on normal outflow.