Oh to be a fly on the wall at Manning now!

:E

We need a smilie dressed in a kilt to go with "We're doomed Capt Manwaring"

Manning are well aware of this and to be honest this isn't new "news". BA opened general DE non TR pilot recruiting last month.

I think all those that are going to go have gone or are in the process of going. I'd be surprised if an article in the DT based on 2 month old news is going to have any additional impact on pilot manning in the RAF.

Manning were certainly aware of the BA recruitment campaign prior to its general release due to an apparent reneging on a "deal" wrt managed path. The numbers required from both managed path and DEP have been kept somewhat quiet by BA due to the fact the business plan needed ratification.

Whilst I agree that, in the short term, those who are eligible to go are in the process of doing so, the unknown quantity will be how many will be tempted by the numbers required vs staying in for an uncertain future. The boom / bust phenomenon continues and most people are acutely aware that its better to make the jump on the upward turn as opposed to just before the bust.

Not sure this will influence the majority but it will influence some to leave and those figures have not been accounted for by manning.

Interesting times.

Airlines recruiting sure isn't going to help manning's job.

Nor is the short-sighted decision to axe 170 student pilots and close recruiting pilot for 12 months. Holding JO pilots to 12-months on PVR is clutching at straws. We are set for some interesting times. :sad:

Manning want to be concerned with all the other airlines recruiting at the moment too, not least those in the middle and far east. Emirates alone have 90 A380 on order and other airlines are actively seeking experience. If you are willing to move abroad then there is plenty to do out there...

Who isn't contemplating moving abroad?.... This country has gone to rat s***.

I'm not contemplating moving abroad, I'm quite happy in the RAAF. :}

Me too
 

The RAAF definately isn't the RAF...far from it....but the pay, allowances and distance from the beach can't be beaten!!!!!!!!! and the locals are friendly plus numerous blue sky days, its a "no brainer!"...oh and the wine and petrol are cheap as chips!!!:D

Siggie, Back end o the bus

Didn't your parents teach you that it not nice to mock the afflicted?
Now play nicely and don't tease.
any gen as to whether the RAAF are opening up the numbers/options for parallel recruiting?

Rumours....rumours!
 

Well with the addition of a 5th C-17 and maybe a 6th....more A300's, more Wedgetails, C-27 Spartans......??? They should open recruiting...but then that would be common dog!!!:ugh:

BeLucky,

suitably chastened :\.

I understand that lateral recruitment is at a standstill at the moment, certainly in the 'Maritime trades'. That is not to say that this will not change in the future.

BA cadets and QSPs
 

I put this on the thread re BA recruitment, but it belongs here as well.

This BA recruitment phase will, I think, be a double Whammy for the MOD. Not only will front-line operators, who have a significant amount of experience, be leaving to join as part of the 400 First Officer slots. But we also have a number of students in the training pipeline who have seen a recent cull amongst their colleagues, and are hearing rumours of what the next phase will entail. They have seen a significant number of those who were cut, being offered Cadetships with Cathay. So with the BA recruitment push with 400 Cadetships on offer, you can't blame the guys for considering their options, and if I was 22 again and part way through an ever restricting training pipeline I know which option I would be taking....!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/icon25.gif

I spoke a week or two ago with an AMP briefing team member who told me that the increase in PVRs was only a PPRUNE rumour, I was able to quote him the names of 7 colleagues who had PVRd in the past 10 days. However he was having none of it, and this was before the BA announcement. You just couldn't make it up.....http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...lies/yeees.gif

Perhaps the ex-Iraqi Information Minister Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf (better known as 'Comical Ali') has been hired as a consultant to the AMP Briefing Team?

The last PVR list (July) I saw had a mixed bag of names and roles. Something like 4 from the instructor world, 3 from Harrier, 3 from C17, 2 from C130, 1 Shadow, 2 GR4, 1 Red Arrow, 3 Tristar, 2 CH47 etc etc. Not the exact numbers I grant you but it was a fair spread of exits rather than an exodus from a particular fleet. Quite different from what you would garner from this forum.

That said when pilots vote with their feet it tends to be at option points and I do wonder how many are leaving by this route that we would normally expect to retain.

Where is this PVR list?

hudjunkie,

Perhaps you should have asked the AMP briefing team member why, if there had been no noticeable increase in PVRs, they had increased the pilot PVR waiting time from 6 to 12 months recently?

Biggus,

I did exactly that, the reply was the increase to 12 months was simply one of the various "levers" available to control outflow and experience levels. I was very careful to not shoot the messenger, i.e its not the fault of AMP briefing Team if they arent fully informed, but I did point out that it is crucial that AMP have an accurate picture if he is to be running our Manning picture and not just reacting to it...:sad:

JTO, the 7 I mention are from one fleet, 1 Sqn Ldr pre 38, 2 PA Flt Lts, 4 Flt Lts pre 38. Not sure if the Stats you have seen are the same ones that the AMP guys work from, but these are 7 people I know. Not sure what else I can say on that matter...:confused:

Good luck to all that are leaving..... The offer from BA should be too much for the fence sitters and I would expect many more to leave with offers like these. Alas the Airforce will lose some very experienced folk and it will be nothing like the Airfoce I joined or even the one that I left after 26 years in 96.

Eeek, now that is an exodus.

Sounds like the C130 fleet to me (spoken as a current J guy with who I know is going), any numbers on the Tri* and C-17? I know that a few are leaving those fleets maybe some on an exit date though.

This will no doubt fall on deaf ears or annoy those who don't like hearing it. Check carefully that the grass is actually really greener on the other side. The private sector is in as much pain as the public sector.

The very experienced amongst you with tens of thousands of hours (especially as Captains) on heavy transports types will probably be fine but the rest maybe in for a nasty shock. The whole industry is in a real mess and the newer contracts don't pay anywhere near what the old ones did (BA, Cathay, Quantas etc. have all really changed). Jobs are very thin on the ground and many pilots with many thousands of hours experience are out of work.

If you think receiving special treatment for being ex-mil will be the industry norm, think again. Most airline HR departments know nothing about your achievements and will only be interested in whether you have a current type rated ATPL with enough hours on type.

Also BA's HR department apply little logic in their selection process and think 18 year old cadets make great airline pilots. Of the 800 they plan to take between now and 2016 only about 400 will actually be experienced pilots (ie. less than 100 a year) and there is extremely strong competition from large numbers of civi pilots, from other airlines and with plenty of hours on type for those jobs. Also, BA's seniority based promotion means that you could wait 15 or more years before getting into the left seat of an A320.

Worst case scenario for those without the right experience, you could find yourself spending a large chunk of cash getting the civi-licences only to find that you need to pay an eye-watering amount more for a type rating and then have to accept a pay cut for a contract outside of Europe (and maybe somewhere Third World). Worse after all that you may not even get a flying job - there really are guys out there with type ratings and 3-5000 hours but out of work for over a year or two.

I'm not mil aircrew myself (although I am ex-Army). For me, with my hours and experience (just a Frozen ATPL) there is virtually no chance at all. You guys maybe be able to make it but don't expect to earn more or have a smooth ride unless you have exactly the right quals/experience. Sorry to be gloomy but do be careful - I do regret leaving the Army.

About the only bit of sense in this posting :ok:

Couldn't be bothered going through it in detail. :ugh:

Summed that one up nicely; fixed wing experience with an ATPL then the future is looking very bright at the moment BUT if all you've got is a load of rotary hours then you may have well be working down Tescos.
Or click on this link Pilots - work with us - flydubai, they are after non-type rated pilots (min 2500 hrs TT) and pay £6,500 a month for a FO and £8,500 for a captain (though you need 737 time for their captain slots). Not quite 3rd world, but anywhere in the middle east is close in my opinion!

Bollocks

The employment world for rotary guys is rosy.
There are loads of well paid jobs for ex mil guys, and they don't involve jumping through endless HR hoops either.
Starting wage for rotary guys with mil experience is hugely above fixed wing.

Not if you want to jump across to the airline world its not tourist. Would be genuinely interested to know where these well paid heli jobs are? I would be willing to continue on rotary post military so long as it pays well and isnt flying rigs from some depressing hole like Aberdeen or Hull!

Aberdeen and Hull are not where I would choose to live, but then neither is London. At least the jobs are commutable, unlike many airline jobs, and have you investigated the start wages of airline FOs? Even BA, the holy grail of UK airlines is starting you on 50Kish.
If you have a decent rotary background and some mates you must be able to walk in to a better wage than that.
Right now, there is a police advert, and a royal helicopter advert, and that is outside of all the north sea and exotic special skills jobs around.

Tourist correct me if I'm wrong (I saw that add a few days ago now) isn't the Royal Helicopter job recruiting for a Chief Pilot?? With a salary of £65k ish.... Hardly all that good when there is no career progression available with that company! Do the people behind it also run Air Tanker?? Or maybe the rigs is where all those rotary mates will become rich!

This is the ad for Chief Pilot - Queen's Helicopter Flight:

Apply for the Chief Pilot - The Queens Helicopter Flight job posted by The Royal Household | AviationJobSearch.com

Pelikanpete

That is probably the biggest chip i've seen.

I cant be arsed to take you to task over the majority of the utter drivel you spout, but suffice to say that jobs are out there for the right experience levels, and certainly not the tens of thousand hour captains.

I'm non-type rated, have got through to final stages for 2 major players and been invited to interview for a third; I didn't even apply to one airline recruiting at the moment and got a phone call inviting me to interview. I'm not counting chickens whatsoever and don't intend for this to come across as a menage a une (pardon le francais rodney) but there are more opportunities for mil ME now than I have seen before.

Sorry its not worked out for you but for those that have the experience - things are progressing in the right direction.

"Chief Pilot" is a great term.
Makes it sound very grand.
Boss of 1 helicopter.
The money seems reasonable for the job, don't you think?

Yeah fair call! Do you think they will take me on? I've flown half an hour in a Hughes 500 and got about 20mins on a Squirrel......... and if I'm being totally honest it's not a difficult as you boys make out

I thought my comments would not be liked by some. My point was to be careful to look before you jump - the private sector opportunities and pay scales are not as good as they once were, even for drivel hating, sky gods like Chris Griffin. Don't know anything about rotary jobs just talking about airline jobs for the lower hour guys with no transport time. No chip, no agenda other than if I were in the later groups position I would not be PVRing - Good luck.

Pelikanpete - you say you are 35? One of your posts from 2008 as above

... and this from 2011. Are you in a time warp?

PPL aged 17 then no flying again until I left the Army in 2008. Since then Frozen ATPL via the modular route. Total time working in scabby places over 10 years has been in excess of 5 years (none of it flying).

You've trawled through my previous posts to try and clutch at any ammunition that might rubbish what I've said. If it makes you feel better then I'm happy to agree I was wrong, there has been no recession, there are jobs for everyone and the terms are the best they have ever been. No need to look before you leap just get in there and PVR - if you're a QSP with 1000 hours rotary and a PPL all airlines will be climbing over themselves to employ you. Anyway, this is all getting rather tedious - so just ignore my original comments if you don't like them.

By the way I'm not the one with the chip, some of you lot have a post history that makes you look like RAF trade union leaders.

PVR date confirmed on JPA today (less than 6 months) :ok:
Job offer in writing last week :ok:
Mid-life crisis "me present" on order :ok:
SPVA pension prediction bigger than Pensions Calculator :ok:

One very happy bunny :ok::ok::ok:

Well done LEON, If thats the right thing to say...

Nice to see confidence put into practice. I hope your happy in the new regime - wherever that is.

Does that mean less posts in here?

For the record, I believe BA's starting pay is higher than 3 years ago (pay cut, pay rise) and T&Cs unchanged. Well, you now have to work an additional 5 hours a year on short haul. Another 2 weeks off this month.....

My grass is so green, I need to get out and cut it again.

Oh, and I wonder what the CP of TQF (helo division) entail.....garden parties galore and a crack at Pippa?:ok:

Pelikanpete,

You should be posting on the wannabees forum. The fact that you were in the army has no relevence to your current aviation credentials or adds nothing to your understanding of post service prospects for military pilots. Get yourself on to wannabes so you can drip with the others who have dropped 50k on becoming a pilot. This forum is for military pilots to bask in self pity undisturbed by uninformed punters. Why did you not join the AAC anyway?

Pelikanpete - you don't bear a striking resemblance to Idi Amin do you by any chance? I once was aware of a bloke who did look a bit like him and talks a lot like you do...

:}