I'll talk, you fight - PM
 

Fresh from today's news conference:

BBC News - David Cameron criticises comments over Libya mission

Does he have a point?

How many times have you been given a task without full resources by someone higher up than you. Now imagine you complained to said higher auth or some one else in the c of c, my guess is you'd be told to stop whinging and get on with it. Dread to think what would happen if you then complained to the local/national rags.

ACM Bryant didn't complain to the "local/national rags", his comments were in response to questions asked by MPs and were apparently leaked from the House of Commons.

Or in other words, someone who is authorised asked, he responded and then the minutes were published.

I'd rather they spoke up and looked after the guys who they send to do the fighting. Anything that makes an elected PM of the day think long and hard about committing resources to combat is, in my mind, to be welcomed. And if this conflicts with Treasury led plans to reduce the nations defences - the first obligation of any government - to a point where it can barely defend itself, yes, dagnammit they should speak out.

And, if they speak out and no-one listens, I have a particular admiration for those who put their commissions where their mouths and their convictions are and walk, instead of just sitting back, keeping as low a profile as possible and collecting their pensions.

I'd also like to think that these recent two outbursts are a sign of the shape of things to come, that our leaders will not be afraid or too self serving to speak out in the interests of the services that they lead, but given the knife-fight-in-a-phone-box antics are still going on re PR11 and 12, the cynic in me says that some of this may still be for purposes less altruistic.

Remains to be seen I guess. Cameron is on shaky ground. "You fight, I talk" is a Blairite throwaway soundbite and not worthy of a PM. I'd be prepared to cut him an awful lot more slack if the SDSR that he took a very personal interest in wasnt such a complete and utter treasury led clusterf**k.

IMVVVVHO, natch. :\

Well AVM Bryant I for one have finally seen somebody stand up and say it how it really is, the PM was pre warned in May yet he bleats on.

Finally somebody with balls and character from the RAF to say it how it is :ok::D

Pity there is not many others that have the courage to put there career on the line.

ACM

At least he knows the detail.

Did he?

Did he actually have the guts to stand in front of a TV camera and voice this opinion? If so I must have missed it.

I get the impression he was asked a question by a person that was entitled to hear the truth... NOT A JOURNALIST

I am assuming that it was this person that allegedly has the 'balls and character' to put half their head above the parapet??

Hopefully I have just missed the footage where this courageous officer had the guts to publicly voice his warranted concerns??

My opinion of Cameron proceeds downhill ever faster. Whose fight is this anyway? Who was the 'world leader' who thrust himself forward to commit our people to yet another intervention in another country with little or no benefit to the UK interest? And who is the utter dick who has steadfastly refused to fund his wars. I expected it of Blair and Brown, they are traitorous slime, beneath contempt. One an 'on the make' snake oil salesman and the other a Fascist dictator with a hatred of humanity.

Is Cameron a statesman or a confused and unprincipled middle manager elected way beyond his competence? I think the latter.

Smedley Butler got it right. We should have paid attention.

It would be very useful if people actually read the Telegraph article.

The ACM prepared the briefing paper at the request of a Parliamentary committee. Therefore he was only doing his job, no more, no less. The fact that someone in the MOD, or Parliament, subsequently leaked the document, is hardly his fault.

I don't give a toss that Cameron is embarrassed by the contents of the brief. So he should be, because as already stated, the SDSR was a crock of sh*t. As usual the long suffering military are left to carry the can.

What I do find amazing is that during a time of high unemployment the RAF is unable to recruit enough candidates to fill serveral highly qualified trades. If he carries on like this, Cameron will have far greater success at detroying the RAF than Hitler ever did!

Funny how things change in 2 years, once you get into power......
 

Shadow Defence Secretary Dr Liam Fox said: 'The honesty and bravery of our fighting forces stands in stark contrast to the weasel words and dishonesty of their political masters.

'All of this results from a decade of neglect of our Armed Forces, and their families, by the Labour Government - because Gordon Brown, as Chancellor, was never willing to fully fund Tony Blair’s wars.'

Read more: 'Treasury-imposed cap' meant British Army could only afford to fight Taliban once a month | Mail Online



(Thanks to Brimstone52 in the Torygraph for this link)

Lord Farquar in Shrek said to his heroes,"Some of you may die, but that is a risk I'm prepared to take.".

The PM might as well have said,"You do the dying, I'll do the talking.".

I'm a Tory of the Maggie era, but I now question my political beliefs when a Tory PM talks like that. Actually, I question the whole rotten House of Lizards when the likes of Frank Dobson et al are living in central London in 3 bed apartments for 400 quid a month when the market rate is four times that.

I question the MPs' free private health care for them and their families, their outrageous allowances for which they are afforded secretarial allowances to fill in the forms for them, as they are apparently above that. I question their pensions. I question their subsidized bars and restaurants and above all, their 'privileges' as 'Right Honourable Members'. There are a few good'uns. Frank Skinner, the 'Beast of Bolsover' is a man so far to the Left of my political leanings that he is next to Pluto. But he had the decency not to vote for a pay rise, and when all the other pigs did, didn't take it. That, to me, puts him head and shoulders above the rest of the political elite who do what the whips tell them to. Which brings me back to Cameron. Cromwell sacked all the crap politicians of the Rump parliament, because when it comes down to it, fighting well turns out to be more useful than talking well. We can fight well given limited resources. Cameron indicates his oratorical skill and political judgement when he dismisses the Armed Forces with such a glib, inept statement which comes across as: "I'm the suit, go and die, pleb.".

I really don't like what's happening to my country.

wot he said
 

This is what DC said

"At a press conference on Tuesday, Cameron showed his impatience with the remarks, saying: "There are moments where I wake up and read the newspapers and think, 'Look, tell you what, you do the fighting and I'll do the talking'

If that is true, that is rich coming from a man who has never seen combat. If our Government ask the military to lay down their lives for it's foreign policy (regardless of whether that policy is the right policy for UK), then the least it can do is ask the military to to do what is possible and with the very best resources.

David Cameron said: "There are moments when I wake up and read the newspapers and think: 'I tell you what, you do the dying and I'll do the talking'."

Message to CMD, 'you have two ears and one mouth, please use in that ratio'.
;)

so if Cameron wants to "do the talking", who is doing all the thinking for him?

A Certain well known WW2 RAF Squadron Commander declared his unit non-operational for lack of spares and got some PDQ! Problem is we don't have a budget to buy stuff and the delivery timescale for what we need in years not months. The ACM speaks the truth and Cameron is a non-military To:mad::mad: ser

Any guesses on his Nom de PPRuNe. Plenty of candidates regularly post on this board ....:E:E:E

So we have a PM of a so-called democracy that does not like others to talk - what happened to the free speech that our soldiers sailors and airmen fought so hard for?

Well done Simon Bryant - anybody think he didn't speak the truth?

Cameron has really shot himself in the foot on this one. His remarkably petty throw-away line is reminiscent of Brown at his worst. Time to start listening Dave: instead of signing more cheques to prop up failing 'western-looking' dictatorships and calling it 'Foreign Aid', spend the money where it is needed, defending the people who defend you, you @r$e.

At the risk of being uncouth, he also has one anus and appears to be utilising it in lieu of his mouth on this issue...