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New Flying pay review? Or old news rehashed?
Front line troops could face pay cut on return home - Telegraph
An internal Ministry of Defence document obtained by this newspaper reveals that all specialist pay across the Armed Forces is to undergo a thorough review. As a result it is possible that fighter pilots earning a maximum extra of £60 a day or £21,900 a year could face having their wages reduced once they finish operational flying. Similarly submariners patrolling off the Libyan coast may face a cut to their maximum £15,000 a year extra that recognises the unique skills and dangers they face. MoD sources said that while it is possible cuts to these supplements could be made it is more likely that servicemen who are being paid to perform tasks that they no longer execute will be the first to see payments axed. A measure has already been put forward to cut the £2,000 a year ‘Para Pay’ for members of The Parachute Regiment and airborne forces in a move that has caused uproar after it was disclosed in the Telegraph yesterday. Gen Lord Dannatt, former head of the Army, warned that the Government would “tinker with morale at our peril” in pay cuts. Gen Sir Mike Jackson, who also lead the Army, added: “I would personally urge caution to the bean counters seeking their money not to erode the extraordinary fighting spirit of airborne forces.” An internal MoD paper reveals that the specialist pay cuts are likely to be much more widespread across all three Services. Under a Defence Internal Brief paper MoD chiefs state that “each category of Specialist Pay will be reviewed and revalidated in 2011”. The paper, titled Changes to Service Personnel Allowances, is part of a drive outlined in the defence review to recoup £250 million out of the £880 million paid in annual allowances. “It is accepted that these changes will be unpopular and that some of them may require adjustments to lifestyle, but they are a necessary part of the Department’s contribution to the overall Government’s programme to reduce the UK deficit,” the paper said. MoD sources said that “nothing is being ruled in and nothing is being ruled out” in terms of cuts to be made. Under current regulations once a person leaves a post, such as a pilot taking up a desk job, he will retain his specialist pay at 100 per cent for three years gradually dropping to 25 per cent then ceasing after six years. The time span in which the specialist pay is continued could be drastically shortened, defence sources have said. The independent Armed Forces Pay Review Body is carrying out the re-evaluation and will report to ministers later this year. But speculation and anger is growing over pay cuts in the Armed Forces that have already suffered a two-year wage freeze. “Specialist pay goes to the heart of motivation and morale,” said a senior officer. “If you want a damn near mutiny in the Armed Forces then targeting specialist pay is going to light the blue touch paper. “It is petty, vindictive and puerile and the Government should look elsewhere for its cuts.” Jim Murphy, the shadow defence secretary, said: “Increasingly it is those prepared to fight for our country who are suffering from this Government’s decision to cut the deficit too far and too fast.” A MOD spokesman said: “While the independent Armed Forces Pay Review Body is undertaking a review of allowances, idle speculation of this sort can be very damaging to the morale of Armed Forces”. They must know that leaks like this are pretty dire for morale; furthermore, if they axe FP the minute you walk out of a flying job, who is going to put themselves for promotion bearing in mind that promotion now will most probably yield a pretty hefty pay CUT for more responsibility and less fun? :ugh: At best, the telegraph is worrying individuals unnecessarily, at worst, we are about to see a pretty major head for the exits.... |
Meanwhile, Cameron gives away hundreds of millions of taxpayers hard earned wages to countries that can find the cash to develop, manufacture and deploy nuclear weapons.
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With the reduction in the aircrew cadre there won't be much saving by removing flying pay from those remaining.
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There is seldom any good news for those now serving. Glad I left when I did.
Flying pay has been reviewed before, at least twice during my RAF time. Removal of flying pay where aircrew are removed from a flying position through no fault of their own would be a severe blow, a double whammy in fact. |
It's not just Specialist Pay or Flying Pay; I hear a whisper that those military air-traffickers drafted in to police the Stalinist No-Fly Zone overhead the sweaty oafs running, jumping, splashing about and throwing things at the so-called London Olympics are very interested in the pay scales enjoyed by their civil colleagues.....:hmm:
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Is this the allowances package review rehashed in a new story? Or is there an ACTUAL review going on into specialist pay going at the moment? Quotes the Torygraph then: Qualified aeroplane and helicopter pilots, as well as specialist aircrew, can earn up to an extra £40 a day on top of their salaries even if their job does not involve flying. Under the generous allowances scheme pilots are still paid the full "flying pay" for three years once they have left a "flying job". The rate of specialist pay reduces to 75 per cent in the fourth year, 50 per cent in the fifth, 25 per cent in the sixth and ceases in the seventh. It is the same principle for all other recipients of specialist pay in all services. It is understood that the Chancellor, George Osborne was said to be "staggered" to learn that extra pay annually worth millions of pounds was paid to pilots who do not fly and submariners who no longer serve at sea. |
This may be a non-story. The article suggests the AFPRB is carrying out the review, as they do on a rolling basis every few years for specialist pay. As they are one of the genuinely independent bodies, any recommendations for changes are likely to be relatively sensible. That doesn't mean the government has to implement them, but I don't think we are likely to see a shafting - in that area at least!
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SP is now 'retention pay' according to Air Manning. Certainly, removing it from those who PVR supports the argument.
Then, if you are 'fortunate' to find yourself in a ground tour, and your SP is cut, the MOD feels it no longer needs to retain you. Q. Does this mean RoS no longer apply? Anyway, it comes down to to how much of the nutella sandwich you can stomach before PVRing! |
Nutella? Ah, isn't spreadable squirrel **** a marvelous thing?;)
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Meanwhile, Cameron gives away hundreds of millions of taxpayers hard earned wages to countries that can find the cash to develop, manufacture and deploy nuclear weapons. |
Apparently funding the reds is a tiny part of the defence budget, however the revenue that they actually bring into the country far out-ways the cost. Apparently!
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Apparently there is a man in (yet) another red suit that leaves presents under millions of christmas trees each year, apparently!!
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It would be nice if someone high up pointed out to the press and MOD if needed, that FP (and SP) is not an "allowance" and question whether BA pays it's pilots the same as it's admin clerks??? It's ridiculous that we still have one archaic pay scheme and a plethora of extra pay!
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Talk Reaction, you don't work for a rival airline - you're in the military. There may be a crossover of skill but that's where is ends. Your attitude comes across as a little arrogant.
The BA comparison is only relevant when the forces want to retain people who might otherwise leave for the civi sector. In view of the lack of jobs out there and the redundancies in the forces there seems little reason to pay a retention incentive. It's also a flawed comparison when BA do in fact pay some of their admin staff very favourably and there are many parts of the Armed Forces where people work in far more dangerous and/or uncomfortable roles that require more commitment and at least equivalent levels of training/ability but they don't ever receive any extra pay (ie. nearly all combat arm units in the Army). That said I'm not suggesting that everyone should be reduced to the same cr@p pay and share the poor moral but in the current climate those not in role will have their work cut out arguing why they deserve the extra pay and unfavourable comparisons might be drawn that question pay levels for those in role as well. |
Pelikan
"at least equivalent levels of training/ability but they don't ever receive any extra pay (ie. nearly all combat arm units in the Army)." PC b@llocks mate. More dangerous, definately. Requiring more commitment, arguably. More training/ability, what planet are you on? The only comparable training/ability would be special forces, and they are paid more than aircrew. Re the lack of jobs, actually there is massive recruiting drive worldwide at the moment including BA who specifically want military pilots, so any military aircrew mate can get a job if he wants. |
Talk Reaction, you don't work for a rival airline - you're in the military Tourist is bang on, you aren't. |
I didn't want a rent and food rise, but equally we don't really want the assessment of quartering and food charges confused with the assessment of pay.
The method of assessing these charges is at least objective; if quarter and food charges hadn't gone up in line with civvy street, it would be a benefit that could be exploited by the government: '"Look we did our brave boys a favour!". It would confuse the real issue which is a pay cut. Also, to compensate for a real-terms pay cut by being generous with charges isn't really fair on those who don't live in etc etc... What will be interesting is what pay rise the AFPRB recommends several years from now when they are finally able to do so again. Since it relates closely to private sector pay - that is still rising - I would imagine it could be quite sizeable. That said, getting shafted because Brown couldn't run a piggy bank is still annoying :ugh: |
To my way of thinking, the AFPRB no longer has any relevance. Year after year they have made recommendations that have been accepted not because the MoD actually believes in the process, but because they know in advance what will be acceptable to our Lords and Masters. How else would you explain a pay freeze at a time when the military is so widely deployed and so stretched?
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BA who specifically want military pilots, so any military aircrew mate can get a job if he wants. |
Sorry to butt into the civ/mil debate (which I was enjoying), but I'd like to have a go at answering the original question with some facts.
Most of this is old news - the figures being quoted (6 years to lose FP) are the old deal. The Pay & Allowances Review knocked that on the head in Spring. The new deal is 2 years not in a Flying Related job at 100% and you lose 50% in Year 3 then 100% in Year 4. Whilst this is pretty galling if you're sent to 2 consecutive tours away from a Flying Related job, you'd have to be trying pretty hard to achieve this. So the reality is that almost everyone currently in receipt of FP is staying on 100% at the moment. Will it stay that way until Christmas? I wouldn't bet my Flying Pay on it (but then, since I'm not in a Flying Related job at the mo; I guess that I sort of am!!):( |
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