Blue Angels stood down / grounded?
 

I hear that the Blue Angels have been stood down / grounded after an incident at an airshow in VA where they exited out of loop too low. CO called knock it off and rest of demo flight was terminated. Debriefed and returned to FL.Anybody know specifics? Altitude that was busted? Video / audio ?Thanks

Correction: Blue Angels-Stand-down - seattlepi.com

"Correction: Blue Angels-Stand-down"
"PENSACOLA, Fla. (AP) — In a May 23 story about The Blue Angels flight team canceling a practice and show, The Associated Press reported that four fighter jets flew below an 8,000-foot ceiling established for the show. The entire show was performed below the 8,000-foot ceiling and four of six jets violated a lower, minimum altitude that has not been made public."
Published 02:11 a.m., Wednesday, May 25, 2011

Video here.
First half from the Saturday show. Maneuver flown correctly, starting at 11:30. Second half was from the Sunday show. Incident maneuver starts at 23:27. VERY close.

Looks like the Boss got things a bit Pete Tong, can any experienced display team pilot give the finer details.
Thanks for the link iskyfly

Always remember listening in on the Blue Angels at Lossie in the 60s. From the cockpit of the Sea Prince. Think they were Grumman Tigers??? Maam i have 6 Turkeys in CCT, Drumsticks down and Feathers ruffled:cool:

As a result of this incident they also cancelled todays display at the Naval Academy graduation. Dissapointing, but understandable. :sad:

Bob C

If the boss had got it really wrong, would they have followed him all the way in, like the Thunderbirds 'Diamond Crash' in '82? One would have thought Bitching Betty would have gone into overdrive, or is she unplugged for the duration?

Snowbirds - I think!

Worried about litigation perhaps? The great American disease - blame some one else and get paid for it.








Golly gee. I feel traumatised watching that video. There was no warning, can I claim? :eek:

@ David Parry
I saw them at Yeovilton in the early 1960's and they had Tigers then

Were the No's 3 & 4's pulling up and out near the bottom of the loop part of the show or had they already realised it was all turning pear shaped?

Darwinism / Navy_Adversary

I've done a fair bit of this sort of stuff. To be honest, it's difficult to comment with much more confidence than anyone else viewing, however it all looks reactive at the bottom there. The fact that the 2 wingmen exit the formation asymmetrically crowd front, the guy in the stem turns his smoke off and the leader leaves his on tends to suggest that they had an OMG moment.

I would guess that the 2 wingmen escaped. Depending on their experience in that position, they may have had pretty low awareness that it was going to be lower than normal until very late indeed. In your peripheral vision, a 500' pull out is not going to look much different to a 50' pull out until very late. Given the aircraft excess performance available, it's surprising that the leader didn't rescue it a bit more aggressively - should have been clues in the 3rd and 4th quarters.

Hope that helps

Doesn't the commentator say that they are each going to do 'break turns' in separate directions?

Ah - didn't really listen to commentary. Still doesn't look very symmetrical, although it could be the camera angle. The other thing which didn't seem to stack up was that there wasn't any obvious attempt to rejoin.

Like I said, difficult to have too much confidence even in my own analysis based on the video...

If you watch the (presumably) 'correct' version, at around the 12 minute mark the commentator makes that comment, the formation stays intact along the front of the crowd, and having passed the crowd they then break in different directions. Now watch the less than perfect version, the commentator makes the same comment, 3 and 4 pull up and away before the formation pass in front of crowd. I'd suggest that's not the 'break turn' that was planned, but as a mere ex-dcs muncher I have no idea what the individual pilots were thinking or intending otherwise.

Dave

I am curious to know what, if any, procedures exist for a formation flight situation where an aircraft in the formation has to exit because of problems but to do so without causing problems for others in the formation. Ie- if you are in the front right, you pull up and turn right?

"Ie- if you are in the front right, you pull up and turn right? "

Saw the Red Arrows do exactly that once at Douglas IOM. They were performing over the bay during TT Week
At the top of a diamond - four loop the right hand man developed turbine surge and broke right and headed to Ronaldsway. The left-hand man of the four also broke formation left did a 180 turn and then followed rapidly. Most viewing didn't realise anything was wrong - the two Hawks broke away as if it was a planned move. Only obvious sign of a problem was the "wrong" engine noise

The escape is pre-briefed. If there are two or three of you, it's pretty straightforward (I hope - left or right as appropriate). The more aeroplanes, the more complicated. For example, a thirty degree bank right and up, a sixty degree bank right and up, a thirty degree bank and down, etc. Your mate may follow, especially if you're in the middle!

The most I ever did was a fourteen-ship (required a bit of thought)!! :eek:

Point of order. The Thunderbird's Lead didn't get it wrong - he had an elevator control linkage mechanical failure on the pullout.

Escape manoeuvres:

Blokes at the front = up
Blokes at the back = fall off the back
Bloke in the middle = pull up through boss' slipstream (you're going backwards anyway)

(Could be a blokess of course)

Line astern took a bit more bottle in that you had to hold your depth as you fell off the back and theoretically not take the fins off the boys behind you.

Seemed to work on the odd time we needed it in my day.

KMB01

Thank you kemblejet01, hoodie, Tay Cough, jamesdevice and caligula.

Hoodie

You sure about that? I talked to a guy on the mishap investigation board, and that was certainly not the original finding...

Ewen, I'm basing it on a detailed article (over several pages, IIRC) in Aviation Week following publication of the accident report. That's what was said at the time.

Was there later evidence, then?

Edit: Wikipedia says that the official USAF conclusion is mechanical failure, but also says that many at the time nevertheless considered it to be CFIT.

It's not quite that easy (I know you said "For example"...). It might be when you're S&L but every Reds' manoeuvre has it's own specific escape. A brief I saw had them running through what would happen if the leader lost his engine half way up a loop. Each guy/girl was shouting out what they would do and where they expected the other members to be. Hats off I say, especially as they run through the same procedure for each manoeuvre (in different briefs).

As for the Blue Angels' vid, a smidge of an extension over the top followed by a tiny let out 'down the hill' might have lead to a lower than normal bottom out, but that's mere conjecture. Whether 2&3 were meant to pull out individually would be interesting to hear, it certainly didn't look controlled and synchronised.

I hope the Team aren't in any dwang and can continue with a successful season.

DITO

The escape bit actually is fairly straightforward most of the time. From a single formation, no matter how big, it's pretty much always just pull up and out on your side of the formation. If you're rolling, keep going in the direction of the roll. If you're if in line astern, despite how close it looks, you nearly always have nose/tail separation or can do very quickly and just pull straight up.

If it's the leader, there's going to a bit more drama, but actually nobody else should do anything dramatic - just open out in sections, left side, right side and stem.

It's a bit more tricky in some of the dynamic manoeuvring, where occasionally the escape is counterintuitive either because of your own aircraft attitude, or because of what else is going on around you. You just try and drill those ones in.

And ultimately of course, there's still a big place for common sense and good airmanship...

Blue Angels C.O. Relieved
 

Chief of Naval Air Training, Rear Adm. Bill Sizemore, relieved Cmdr. Dave Koss, Commanding Officer of the Naval Flight Demonstration Squadron Friday, May 27, at his request following a lower-than-normal maneuver during the team’s last performance at the Lynchburg Regional Air Show May 22.

“With deep personal regret I shared with my command today that I will be voluntarily leaving the greatest flight demonstration team. I performed a maneuver that had an unacceptably low minimum altitude,” said Koss. “This maneuver, combined with other instances of not meeting the airborne standard that makes the Blue Angels the exceptional organization that it is, led to my decision to step down. I have the utmost respect for the Sailors and Marines of the Blue Angels organization and all that they embody. The reason this team is so successful, brings thrills to millions of fans across America, and represents the U.S. Navy so superbly is because of the absolute commitment to safety and perfection by every member of the team. I am honored to have been a part of this organization and I look forward to watching its success in the future.”

Koss will be replaced by Capt. Greg McWherter, who was the previous Blue Angels’ Commanding Officer, for the duration of the season.

This move requires the cancellation of the Blue Angels’ scheduled performances at the Rockford Airfest June 4-5 and the Evansville Freedom Festival Air Show June 11-12. The Blue Angels will remain in Pensacola for additional training and air show demonstration practice. Any potential changes to the team's future schedule will be announced at a later date.

The Blue Angels regret any inconvenience and look forward to continuing to represent the Navy and Marine Corps service members serving around the world.

http://www.blueangels.navy.mil/media...110527_001.pdf

Blue Angels Leader Resigns.
 

Someone with some common sense has made what he sees as the right decision to stand down, rather than see his team smeared all over a tarmac in front of the public. Good luck to you, and I respect your honesty and integrity.

The new leader is Capt. Greg McWherter. Has any other national aerobatic team been led by a Captain/Colonel/Group Captain equivalent?

To be the CO requires at least 3,000 tactical jet flight-hours and have commanded a tactical jet squadron. The team leader (#1) is the Commanding Officer and is always a Navy Commander, who may be promoted to Captain mid-tour depending on if he has been approved for Captain by the selection board. Pilots of numbers 2-7 are Navy Lieutenants or Lieutenant Commanders. There are usually one or two Marines among this group, ranked Captain or Major.

The mans bio;

Captain Greg McWherter is a native of Atlanta, Ga., and graduated from Avondale High School in 1986 where he lettered in football and soccer. He attended The Citadel, where he played NCAA Division 1 soccer for the Bulldogs and graduated Cum Laude with a Bachelor of Science degree in Civil Engineering in 1990. He received his commission through the NROTC program and entered aviation training at Naval Air Station (NAS) Pensacola, Fla., in June 1990. Greg continued his training at nearby NAS Whiting Field, flying the T-34C Mentor, before moving to NAS Meridian, Miss., to fly the T-2C Buckeye and TA-4J Skyhawk. He earned his wings of gold in September 1992.

In November 1992, Greg reported to Strike Fighter Squadron 106 (VFA-106), the "Gladiators," at NAS Cecil Field, Fla., for initial training in the FA-18 Hornet. Upon completion of the Fleet Replacement Squadron, he was ordered to VFA-131, the “Wildcats,” where he served as the Landing Signals Officer (LSO), Weapons Training Officer and Quality Assurance Officer. From October 1993 to February 1997, he completed two workups and deployments to the Mediterranean Sea and Persian Gulf with the "Wildcats" aboard USS George Washington (CVN 73). He graduated from the United States Navy Fighter Weapons School (TOPGUN) in May 1995 and was selected as VFA-131’s Pilot of the Year in 1996.

In March 1997, Greg reported to NAS Fallon, Nev., as a TOPGUN Instructor. During his tour in Fallon, he served as a Training Officer and the Navy’s AIM-9M/X, Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System and FA-18 Air-to-Air Employment Subject Matter Expert.

Greg returned to the fleet in March 2000 as Tactics Officer and Department Head for VFA-34 at NAS Oceana, Va. During his tour with the "Blue Blasters," he completed two more Mediterranean Sea and Persian Gulf deployments aboard USS George Washington (CVN 73) and was selected by his peers to receive the 2003 Commander, Naval Air Forces Leadership Award.

In August 2003, Greg received orders to the United States Joint Forces Command in Norfolk, Va. Within the Joint Requirements and Integration Directorate (J8), he served as the Joint Close Air Support (JCAS) Branch Chief and was responsible for identifying mission area shortfalls and developing joint solutions through the Department of Defense. During his Joint tour, Greg completed Joint Professional Military Education (JPME) Phase I through the College of Distance Education at the Naval War College.

After completing refresher training in the FA-18 Hornet in March 2006, Greg reported as Executive Officer of VFA-192 stationed at Naval Air Facility (NAF) Atsugi, Japan. He commanded the “World Famous Golden Dragons” through three major deployments aboard USS Kitty Hawk (CV 63) from June 2007 until July 2008.

Greg was the Commanding Officer of the Blue Angels from November 2008 to November 2010. He resumed command of the squadron in May 2011. He has over 4,200 flight hours and 950 carrier arrested landings. His decorations include the Defense Meritorious Service Medal, the Meritorious Service Medal, two Air Medals (Strike Flight), two Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medals, a Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal, as well as various campaign and unit awards.

Hoodie

There was no evidence of mechanical failure uncovered at all during the first investigation.

When these results were presented to TAC/CC (Gen Creech, IIRC), the team was instructed to start the investigation again. This time, however, they were unambiguously instructed to return with "a different finding". Mechanical failure was subsequently discovered.

And you have some form of documentation for this conspiracy theory?

Just a link to some official USAF material would be nice... or anything credible.

One online article (Christian Science Monitor) reports that they fly with wingtip separations of as small as 18 inches. Is this really true? Sounds so small. (I'm just working on my PPL! )

Naah,
complete hogwash - the qingtips on an F-18 are 40 ft apart at all times, according to my 'Goldfish Breeders' Gazette' anyway.

Actually, if you watch videos of the displays, I think you'll be able to judge how reasonable that claim sounds..

Thanks davejb.

Just for referece here's the half baked CSM article

"A typical Blue Angels show includes four F/A-18 Hornet tactical jet aircraft flown in close formation – as close as 18 inches apart – plus two solo aircraft. The lowest maneuver – called a “sneak pass” – is flown by one of the solo aircraft just 50 feet off the deck."

No problem,
always glad to keep up PPrune's reputation for assistance above and beyond :}.

The 18" bit sounds like one of those silly exaggerations that people seem to religiously (pun intended) include in a write up to beef up something that needs no such artificial enhancement. If they are 18" apart at some point I doubt it's for very long...personally I'd also doubt that it's intentional.

The best display team I've ever seen. :cool:

18" is no exaggeration as the jets are this close for the diamod 360 maneuver. Thats from the Blue Angles Website.

Shows typical spacing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...blueangels.jpg

Not sure if your little quip about the wingspan was totally understood davejb :E

I was lucky enough to see these guys at NAS Oceana last September and they were truly "awesome" - as our American friends would say. If you think that 18" is an exaggeration then I beg to differ!

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/z.../oceana562.jpg