RAF Club
 

Hoo hum,

Just emailled the RAF Club and resigned my membership WEF 31st Dec.

Feel a bit sad, one of my last ongoing connections with the RAF, but to honest I think I only ever used once in the 25 years I was in and not at in the 10 since I left (god, is it that long ago...). :sad:

In the circumstances I couldn't really justify the cost. If I added up what I have paid over the years I could have hired a suite at the Inn on the Park.

It was always said when I was in, mostly cynically, that the subs of the serving officers kept the MOD senior staff and defence contractors in the standard to which they had become accustomed. Whenever I did try and book a room for a few days in London it was invariably full.

At least for me, no more.

Well done old boy!!:ok:

I resigned last year when I got fed up paying to use the facilities once a year and subsidising those who get to use it every day!

Plenty of other hotels and clubs where you can get your head down after a reunion for less than you pay for membership of the RAF Club!!

In the last 3 years of semi-regular overnights in London the HBC has only once managed to find me a room in the club - the rest of the time it was full or the remaining rooms were over the cap rate.

I do fear for the future of the club; what will happen to it when the current generation of, ahem, bed-blockers, dies out? Surely they should be laying the foundations now by having a number of rooms set aside for overnight stays by serving officers? If not, many of my generation will forego its' charms and seek cheaper accommodation elsewhere. Plus, the generation that currently dominate proceedings come from a time when the RAF was 4 or 5 times bigger than it is now (or will be). I'm afraid that the numbers for the club just don't add up...a black hole in membership revenue is coming and they must modernise and adapt to survive it.

Which is why I guess they have opened up membership to family members (i.e this can go both directions in the generational chain!) of which I believe there are 500 already elected.

as well as a vastly reduced membership fee, if you join immediatly on completing IOT, for the first 5 years of service.

The Club still boasts a 90%+ occupancy rate and seem to be looking to the future with new membership regulations. I suspect, however, there will soon be more never-served members than there will be serving/veterans.

It seems that the hotel booking service can't get the rooms that you can get by phoning yourself on most occasions...

Where is the added value from CHBS (or whoever they are)......

I stayed there very recently with my wife and thoroughly enjoyed it.

I must admit I haven't used it enough, but intend to make more use of such a great facility.

I think they've had a change of policy to get more serving officers in; discounts after detachments etc..

It's a fantastic facility, and I'm astonished that people don't make more use of it.

Had my family member not inconsiderately terminated their membership in the most final way possible, I'd have been applying.... I had the form and everything!

ORAC
As you're not bothered about severing one of your 'last ongoing connections' with your former career, and have used the club only once in 35 years, then your decision is probably sensible for you.

I found myself going to the club regularly as a guest and, when I found out that I was eligible (ex-UAS) to join as an Affiliate Member, I did so. Conscience as much as anything, as I’d enjoyed the club so often as a guest.

I’ve never stayed but understand the 82 rooms are allocated in order of booking. There are busy periods, but I’ve known friends get in at very short notice. eg After a good evening when they’ve decided against trying to get home. :)
The rates aren’t unreasonable given the location and quality. Tariffs

Wrathmonk
Things may change (who knows?) but, at present, serving/veterans far outnumber never-served members. I always go to the club with serving/veteran members and, without exception, they’ve bumped into lots of people with whom they are serving or have served. Usually in the pub in the basement. ;)

Farfrompuken is right. Room rates are discounted 50% for Serving Members who've been in theatre.

Given the prime location in the heart of the West End, the magnificent building and the excellent facilities, the annual sub is very low. (Much less than comparable clubs in London.)
Serving: Half of one day's pay plus VAT based on the first level for each rank.
Former Serving/Foreign Serving/Affiliate Members: £124.00 incl VAT.

RAF Club - Best Day's Pay Ever Spent
 

I joined the RAF Club in the great recruiting drive of 1967/68 and continued my membership when leaving regular service and can now take my choice of the senior citizens rate or the RAFVR membership rate!!

The club is well managed and is a place that non-RAF people appreciate for its style and ambiance. The bars are could for casual meetings up and the dining room a place for a special meal. I have never had trouble booking and getting a room but have not tried at very short notice. I never tried using the HBS but did it myself - I suspect the club might not understand the status of the HBS in the service scheme of things.

The club has to open its doors to a wider clientele if it is survive the problems of reduced service membership, rising costs and regulation. I have never found the 'outsiders' who use the club abusing the traditions of the place and most feel it a privilage to be able to have a function which is a cut above the average.

Yes, there are cheaper, more modern places but joining the club was one of the better decisions I made - particularly as I was in Hong Kong at the time - but my other haunt: The Brevet Flying Club in Shepherds Market subsequently closed its doors for good.

Flying Lawyer

You are right for the present but I think the club may be forced to 'change with the times' to entice in the new breed and retain those who have recently retired. They've gone in the right direction in some ways (relaxing dress rules at weekends for one) I just hope they don't go so far down the 'family membership' route that the 'ethos' of the club is lost and it becomes just 'another club in London'.

Jacko

Weren't you ex-UAS? If so can't you join in your own right? From the Club site

I was, and I had no idea that such membership existed. My Dad had started the wheels in motion for family membership....

I'm delighted and will look into it. Many thanks.

As a serving officer I'm surprised by some of these posts. Personally I've found the club useful and helpful and have stayed there on many occasions. Once at very short notice, late at night after a concert in Hyde Park.... Although I did receive some strange looks.

A quick email the day before along the lines of '...I know it's a long shot but what are the chances...' has yielded the goods more than once.

In my view the key to success is to not be put off easily and have a bit off old fashioned tenacity as it's often worth it.

Finally and contrary to the more cynical, of course the ratio of serving to non serving is going to be disproportionate, the place would be unsustainable otherwise.

My one criticism is that I have yet to see a painting of a any form of rotary asset in there!!! I know it is (sorry was) a fast jet RAF but lets sort that one out.

Best day's pay ever spent
 

Agree strongly with you, O-D - except that it's only HALF a day's pay for those still serving! An even bigger bargain.

Although it's easy to criticise any establishment, I do suggest that those contributors to this thread who don't take O-D's attitude to the Club are perhaps being rather unfair. The Club is physically constrained by the building's dimensions as to how it can increase its facilities. However, the latest Newsletter says that redundant staff accommodation on the 5th floor is being converted into 10 double/twin bedrooms (planned for opening in Spring 2010) precisely because of the high demand for rooms from members.

Booking as far in advance as you can is always advisable if you want to stay in the Club. When the Club is full, the reservation staff will normally suggest possible accommodation with neighbouring Clubs such as the Cavalry and Guards (literally next door!) or the Caledonian, just a little farther away. You can also ask to be put on a wait list, which I've found does work.

The Trustees and Management of the Club seem to be doing everything they can to encourage serving officers to use the Club, and I'm sure they are also conscious of the long-term threat to the Club which is posed by the steadily reducing number of serving officers. The push to increase the number of Affiliated members and the introduction of Family membership are just two aspects of the way in which that long-term threat is being fought.

The rigid dress code of the past hasn't been relaxed just at weekends. It applies at breakfast throughout the week, and in the Running Horse pub in the basement at all times.

My own non-RAF friends are always hugely impressed when they first visit the Club. For its location, facilities and ambiance it is unrivalled in London. As for the cost, I can only suggest that anyone who thinks it is expensive should enquire as to the cost of joining the RAC Club, or any of the other well-known London clubs. They will then realise what an incredible bargain we have in the RAF Club!

Yes, the dear, departed Brevet Flying Club was also a great place of refuge in the days when the RAF Club was nothing but a stuffy old farts' zone. Happily, the RAF Club has since changed immeasurably for the better.

Duffer

Concur with all that you say. A member since 1966, I now use the Club 2/3 times per year and thoroughly enjoy its ambience, historical connections and value for money. Hardly a visit goes by without bumping into some old mates not seen for years.

newt

If using the facilities once a year is by choice, then it seems a tad unreasonable to suggest that you're subsidising those that use it regularly. And as for getting your head down after a re-union; age must be wearying you. The Club is ideal for doing no such thing. Foldy, PE and others ensure that after our re-unions, getting our heads down in the Club takes place long after the official re-union has wound up - retirement to the Cowdray for far too long, followed (not long after) by an excellent breakfast in the dining room. BTW, you appear to be in resignation mode these days - no Blitz?

As for room availability and difficulty booking - hardly surprising given the numerical ratio of members to rooms. Book early, and be prepared to be disappointed if you cannot.

From what I gather elsewhere, the Club is in good order financially, and will hopefully provide me with many more hangovers and both chance and planned meetings with those old mates for years - in 'familiar' surroundings.

PS: For those in the know, I'll be supplying Black Grouse in the CB -----

Although the new room booking system works pretty well, I find it frustrating that you cannot see an 'availability' overview before filling out all the data fields. If I knew that there were no rooms at the inn on a particular date beforehand, then I'd know not to bother tapping away.

I agree - it's an excellent facility and the breakfasts in particular are historic hang-over cures!

Does the sport of 'Donaldson baiting' still take place?

Oh Jindabyne,

On my case again!!

How can it be unreasonable to decide not to subsidise those who get to use the club every day?

And as for the Blitz, it is not my scene any more! Why pay to have people be rude to me when they can do it at home for free!!

Enjoy yourself and hope you booked early enough to get a room!!

:=

I stayed there a few weeeks ago and had no trouble getting a room. The standard of accommodation easily beats 4* London hotels I have stayed at and the location is hard to beat. More importantly, the club is 1/2 the price, much better presented and there wasn't a pikey in sight!

Choice, as I said.

Because we enjoy it.

Merry Cringe

There is an interesting move about the Club's potential to dissolve itself due to members having no say in its management under the new 'Company's guidelines' - (or similar legislation).

See the members thread on the Clubs Website for the debate.

Like one or two others who have posted on this topic, I joined as a result of the membership 'push' in the late 60s. Unlike Newt, who, if I recognise his pseudonym, has always been a bit off the wall, I have never viewed my annual sub as being a subsidy for someone unlucky enough to be in London on an almost daily basis. In my experience the Club has moved with the times in the last 40 years and continues to do so. It is a great place to hold reunions, to repair to after a good reunion or to hold any sort of party. But those of you who no longer wish to pay your dues - and they probably represent better value for money than the monthly mess subs I used to have to pay - should just quit quietly and gracefully and stop being such curmudgeons!

Wot?

Newt off the wall.........

Change the first letter to something at the other end of the alphabet and you might get close.

:)

Lightning

Are you calling Newt a "cewt"?:)

Jack

PS Perhaps more importantly, from my brief forays past the august portals (pun intended) I would have to say that the light blue are very fortunate to have such a splendid central London venue, at such relatively slender cost, and the old cry of "Use or lose it" comes to mind ....

So its have a go at Newt again!!

Must be that time of year!

Do not know who you are grobace but I think your pseudonym recce is way off the mark!! You might also note that I am not being rude and calling you names without knowing who you are!

Bah Humbug!

The rest is:mad:

There was a caveat in my post, newt, that the less than polite comment only applied if you were who I thought you might be. But, as it appears that, unlike Lightning Mate, you were not one ( a Lightning mate, that is), you are clearly not the cutie someone else knows you to be. I think I'll stop here before I confuse everyone on this forum, not just myself.

It's worth remembering that the only reason we still have such a splendidly located facility is because of the committee's very astute decision to purchase the freehold some years back. Had this not been so we would probably have been languishing somewhere in Paddington now - if anywhere! I understand that the reason the In and Out had to move was that they only held a lease and the owners had upped to the rent to unmeetable levels.

BTW does anyone know what happens at the old In and Out these days? Have the Japanese moved in from next door?

Quote:

---

BTW does anyone know what happens at the old In and Out these days? Have the Japanese moved in from next door?

---

A property tycoon bought the building in 1996 for £50m, planning to turn it into a six-star hotel. Planning permission was granted but it's remained unoccupied ever since - except for security staff and as a car-park for a few of the owner's cars.
It was put on the market about a year ago for a rumoured £250m; I don't know if it was sold.
It now looks run-down and shabby. A pity, it's a magnificent building.

As a member of a now defunct Antipodean club with reciprocal membership, my wife and I have stayed at the RAF Club on visits to the Old Dart. Only criticism is that by Oz standards (and French chambres at Chez Cercle National des Armees), the bedrooms are a tad small - but the same can be said for the 'In and Out' and the Naval Club. Must be a Brit thing.

If you don't use it, you will lose it. My former Club (the Naval & Military in Melbourne) went to the wall earlier this year. With a declining Service membership, a perceived need to maintain 'standards' and failed initiatives to broaden the membership base, it was only a matter of time before Mr Micawber's words came true:

The Bank called in the secured loans, the place was sold, the contents unceremoniously auctioned off and 140 or so years of tradition went down the gurgler!

Some members are more equal than others?
 

Have to say that I can see both sides of the story here. For the price, it is a fantastic facility in a lovely part of Town. However, as a serving member, often on ops, getting a room is up there with winning the lottery,

I did post a suggestion on the Club website a couple of years back, suggesting that a proportion of rooms should be set aside for serving members. I had tried to book in on several occasions over the previous couple of years only to be told it was fully booked. When I spoke to the Club, I was advised to book as far in advance as possible. I did point out that in today's expeditionary Air Force it was often difficult to know whethe one would be in the country in a months time let alone 6 months time, and as such, did they think it fair that retired members could effectively fill the Club years in advance?

According to the news letters at the time, they were then taking bookings for 2012 Olympics. So whilst Gp Capt Buffy Henderson-Smythe DFC BBC ITV* and his chums are sorted, where does that leave the operational elements freqiently deployed but paying subs for the retired personnel and their chums to enjoy this marvellous facility?

I'm not saying we should ban retired personnel - that would be a serious blow to Club membership and ethos. But for the Club to remain a viable and relevant institution, there must be more recognition of the demands placed on currently serving members and an acknowledgment that long-range advance booking may not be possible. Failure to do so will only serve to alienate large numbers of members, threatining the viability of the Club long term.

And then we would have to go to the Union Jack Club :E

Melchett - you had an * by ITV in Gp Capt H-S post noms. surely you were building up to a witty "post-script, small font" quip?:)

.

The RAF Club will go the way of the 'In and Out' Club
 

I resigned a number of years ago for the reasons stated by many in previous threads. Having spent many years paying my subs and finally getting a room there, I was very unimpressed with the allegedly refurbished rooms. The room we stayed in was tiny and seemed to have a 'Merlin on idle' ouside the room for most of the night. The staff's attitude was of a standard expected in a Holiday Inn Express (sorry Holiday Inn) and I left the following morning vowing never to spend any more time and money in/on the premises. I think if I'd been a Snr Officer out of MOD Main Building I would have been gushing about the quality of 'my Club' and what 'a wonderful facility it is in a lovely part of town' and how the latest 'reunion of ancient former Air Officers' was such a tremendous evening! What the RAF Club should be doing is attracting the JOs to spend time there as full an appreciated membersand not only visit as part of IOTC and be parted from their money to support Air Marshall Ffoulks-Smythe and his cronies!. How many times over the past 20 yrs (in my experience), have we had this call to members to 'support the Club lest it close and we lose a valuable asset'. Then it has a revamp and falls into its old ways and the old farts corner all the rooms...and so it continues. I say stuff the club and stay in one of the better hotels. :mad:

The Club is a great asset to have in central London providing good, cheap accomodation. I use it from time to time, generally at short notice. Sometimes I can get a room, other times it's fully booked but then I frequently find the same thing with hotels all over the country.

A few years ago my wife was quite seriously ill and transferred to St Thomas's hospital from Norfolk where we lived. We had three small children at the time. I have to say that the Club was extremely helpful over weekend visits to see her, arranging a room, putting extra beds in and generally helping where they could.

The only downside to the club is that, having regard to one's spouses automatic membership, it's a bit close to the shops and the front desk are far too helpful at storing shopping bags.:*

I,too, have recently cancelled my membership after 24+ years. If I had a 9-5 position then, yes, I could plan months in advance to secure a room, but I don't.

Allowing nondescript persons to secure affiliate membership over, for example, serving warrant officers is, simply, wrong. The RAF (Officers') Club (with its highly prized charitable status) needs to reinvent itself to survive.

AA

grobace,

I'm afraid that I agree with many comments on the thread.

When I'm in town I stay at a private residence which is part of the Wolsey Homes chain. Dine well with the owners too, all for a price that beats the Club hands down.

By the way, what's a Grob 115E? Does it have a trigger?

As a fresh faced Fg Off not too many years ago I used to use The Club all the time. It had recently had a shake-up, adjusted the tariffs and brought some young blood in. Frequently when on BFT/AFT, my coursemates and I would head down to London for a weekend on the town and I could generally get a basic single for about £30. I probably averaged about three nights there per month consistently, and just wanted somewhere to lay my head - not bothered about breakfast, little bottles of shampoo etc.

Now it's a different story. I see that basic rooms are still listed but I can barely remember the last time I could book a room at the club for less than about £100. Now as a poverty stricken junior first officer I can't really justify that expense when I can get a rooms in decent hotels in central London for about £50 through a certain website.

I do like the RAF Club and want to support it but at the moment it is pricing itself out of the market to a certain extent. Due to the constraints of the fabric of the building the quality of the rooms is limited and its USPs are really only it's status and address. They'll need some careful planning to succeed in the future, but I hope they do.

I don't begrudge the old Rowley Birkin types propped up in the best seats of the Cowdray Room as I aspire to be the same one day!

During my last visit to the Club, I had the pleasure of being invited into the company of a party celebrating their awards that day at Buckingham Palace (MCs, DFCs). Most were young serving members, and I felt proud and privileged to share their company. Unlike one or two others posting here, I would like to think that they, and their views on life, represent the majority of today's generation of junior officers.

And for the few that choose to claim their peripatetic lifestyle, brought on by their operational status, as a reason for being unable to maintain membership, that's fine. But remember that many members have been in that position during their serving life, and to collectively describe them in the manner of Posts 29 & 31 is inappropriate.

Torque,

My single room with shower and WC for two weekday nights in December is £114 - surely that can't be bad? Don't know Rowley, but me and my old muckers will raise a glass to him. Won't tell you which night, but you would recognise us by our good manners, friendly banter, lack of upper foliage and inebriated demeanour. Join us!

You clearly know full well what a Grob 115E is, Lightning Mate, and I don't imagine your current steed has a trigger, either.
As to the to and fro of the discussion points, surely we can all make our own minds up as to whether we wish to be members of the RAF Club. Nobody forced me to join, and I would hope that the newbies coming out of IOT are not being given the hard sell.

Well said, jindabyne!

Years ago - quite a few, actually - I was sitting in the Cowdray Room having a quiet drink. A distinguished-looking old gent and his guest sat down opposite and began to chat....

It was Bob Stanford-Tuck - he was chatting with some meeja-luvvy about his friend, 'Dolfo' Galland.

The RAF Club has improved immeasurably over the years. It isn't some convenient doss house for kids out-on-the-town, it's a Club. But it is neither stuffy nor an old farts' rest home, it's what the members make it.

I say stuff the ignorant young oiks; let them stay in one of the hotels. Innit...

Sorry Beags, I think you're well off the mark with your last post, which I presume was aimed fairly squarely at me. If you write off me and my colleagues as ignorant young oiks, then I presume you'll understand why The Club is in trouble again, wondering how to get more young blood and cashflow in.

The truth is I am proud to be a member of the RAF Club and value it as a direct link to my former job, of which I am also very proud. I plan to remain a member for life and would use it every day if I worked in central London.

However, in the decade-ish that I've known it, the Club has gone from being b----dy good value to a bit on the steep side. I'm sure you can work out the effect that has on those of us who are not on Spec Aircrew rates. I always enjoy visiting whether it be for a reunion and dinining-in night, a meal in the restaurant, a G&T on the balcony or just as somewhere to crash out after a night on the town. They always seem happy for me to settle my bill regardless of the reason for my visit.

I suspect you and I were no different when you were my age (back in the Cretaceous Period);)

Well Done BEagle
 

You have just confirmed what I said. I would continue but words fail me!

No, not having a go at you, Torque Tonight, just mocking the prose of those who consider it acceptable to complain about 'old farts' in the Club.

As for price, I've booked 2 nights in Jan 2010 - arriving Sunday evening and leaving Tuesday morning. Single with shower and WC - total cost £109.

Whereas for the same period at somewhere like the Novotel in Paddington, the cost would have been at least double that figure.

Yes, hotels in the UK are generally pretty expensive compared with those in Europe, but the Club's prices are very reasonable - particularly for 'old farts' living on a Service pension.