Just a minor point in this tragedy, would it not be better if steps were taken now to ensure the security element [at all service establishments] were undertaken by those who's career path is, er, "security" and not some press ganged cook or techie with [or without] a chip on their shoulder?

In what sense do you think this fellow was "press ganged"?

As it happens this was a port visit and not a service establishment.

We got some good photos of Astute as we sailed passed at about 6pm and saw 6-7 police vans etc. Of course we didn't know what had gone on.

Certainly when I was serving there was an unfortunate mind set among a small minority of those in, say, the clerical or technical trades that they were somehow divorced from the nasty "killing people" element of the armed forces. If any cook or techie has a problem with the idea that they may have to one day fire a weapon in anger, then perhaps it is time for them to consider their position and seek civilian employment.

Btw do you imply that those whose career path is, er, "security" are less valuable to the service than those career path is, er "cooking chips"?

Suggesting that there should be security specialists on board a submarine or ship shows a lack of understanding of how the RN operates. By necessity personnel have to be multi-roled and the smaller the vessel, the more this is required. Every person on board a submarine (from Chefs to the Captain) is highly trained and has a unit-wide systems knowledge that is probably without rival in the UK armed forces. I wouldn't say this to a sun-dodger's face, but they are hugely impressive. It would be completely impractical to carry more people and whether you like it or not, guarding the submarine alongside is secondary to her primary duties - blowing **** up and intelligence gathering. The people that are involved in looking after the SM alongside (basically everyone) are fully trained - I don't think you could really ask a lot more than that.

Thomas Coupling - in response to the question about what this has to do with aviation... I hope you're asking the same about the other topics du jour in the military part of PPRUNE. A couple of examples: "Military Saluting Politicians" & "Enhanced Learning Credits". The answer is that it is a subject of interest to all military personnel, of which aircrew are a part and I would suggest that it is of even greater to members of the FAA. I think the subject is quite obvious from the thread title so my suggestion would be not to read it if you're not interested.

Mate of mine is a cook in the Army, and loves going out on patrol in Afghanistan. Says it makes a change from the kitchen, and they are all in the Army not employed in a hotel.

Picks 135

Bravo!

Tents!!!
 

I think we are all in the same BOAT, in Afghanistan. Parden the pun.

With regard to civilian visits aboard subs, the American Navy went one better a few years back. They took a party to sea, but unfortunately the boat surfaced under a Japanese fishing boat. Don't know if a civilian was driving at the time.