The cuts haven't reached the Herc Force yet then !
 

Crabs are flying into Bardufoss on Fri to pick us up in a Herc. Crew of 10!!!!!. Accom offered here but they have already booked into the Bardufoss hotel. Will cost over 2 grand for the night. I hate Crabs

Just read this link on Facebook ! obviously not on the dist list when the news broke that we have a financial problem ! :=

How does f**k Off sound - why don't you walk home then:mad:

And maybe read the thread about what the C130 Force are doing in Libya and the constant ops for the last decade in Afghan/Iraq and other theatres?

The crew don't book the accn - thats the tasking agency.

I presume that the accn you offered allowed personnel to get an undisturbed nights sleep in single man rooms?

Or do you want a tired C130 crew flying you out over the mountains?

And yes it's a bite because I'm sick of people flinging mud towards the RAF and the C130 Force.

Just because things aren't great with other units and Services doesn't mean you can slag off the RAF.

Financial Hardship - that's sacrificing everything your Service stands for so you can have floating cocktail parties on huge flaptops with no embarked carrier aviation.:mad:

[QUOTE=Hardly Worth it;6283170]Crabs are flying into Bardufoss on Fri to pick us up in a Herc. Crew of 10!!!!!. Accom offered here but they have already booked into the Bardufoss hotel. Will cost over 2 grand for the night. I hate Crabs QUOTE]

Good name, you're not!

I take it you'll turn down the lift then.
Thought not :mad:

WHAT!
 

There is accom, food and a bar here ready for them to use. Why spend over 2 grand when it doesn't need to be spent or could be spent on the frontline. Don't know where that is I suppose do you!

:rolleyes:Thought a herc crew was 3. 2 drivers and a bag carrier. you should wake up and smell the coffee as the axe will fall on you as well

But I do see the 'cuts' have found their way into the Navy.

RAF Types

Ignore the Trolls/'Senior' Service wallies. Please please please don't feed them. You'll keep them here so they won't be able to go and play with each other in dresses.

"Crabs are flying into Bardufoss on Fri to pick us up in a Herc. Crew of 10!!!!!. Accom offered here but they have already booked into the Bardufoss hotel. Will cost over 2 grand for the night. I hate Crabs"

Pilot - Aircrew jobs - RAF Careers

That is all :E

HG

Due to the cuts, it's likely to be a training sortie. 2 student pilots + 1 instructor, 1 student loadie + 1 instructor, 1 ground engineer (for when Albert gives up the ghost), 2 movers and 2 ATSy coppers for pax processing. Total of 10.
If you don't want to be carried by students, as previous posters have said, WALK! :mad:

"Crabs are flying into Bardufoss on Fri to pick us up in a Herc. Crew of 10!!!!!. Accom offered here but they have already booked into the Bardufoss hotel. Will cost over 2 grand for the night. I hate Crabs"

Pilot - Aircrew jobs - RAF Careers

That is all :E

HG

Hardly et al
 

For a minute there I thought I'd erroneously logged into AArse - no my mistake! Let's see if we can set a new record for a thread being taken down. You've not just missed out redundancy have you or perhaps canx a run ashore in the med in your floating, soon to be decommissioned gin palace whilst the skirmish in Libya develops? I hate WAFUs.

Hardly Worth It

You're name says it all, unbelievable post, as mentioned have you seen what the crews did last weekend and what they are currently doing elsewhere and have done in the past including the tragic loss of one of our aircraft.

Typical Crabs
 

Straight to the emergency banter. Hit a nerve I can tell. The truth hurts fella. You need to remember you are a serviceman in the Armed Forces like the Navy and Army. Don't like service accom/life then go and fly a civvy jet. Better still take redundancy and hand the reins to either of the other services who will take pride in the job and actually get airborne thinking about picking up troops rather than hotels and subs. In 23 years I have only been on 3 flights that have taken off on time. That says it all. THINK OF THE BLOKES ON THE GROUND DOING THE REAL JOB AND PAYING FOR IT.

Norway, deary me !

OMG it could be worse for you, after all we could be watching you sail around the Caribbean getting pissed and sunning yourself meanwhile trying to look gutted when the fridges break and you have to spend 5 days on a Carib island on channel 5 couldnt we ?

Norway
 

By the way, ground tours of Ireland, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan so don't tell me where the frontline is. Lost friends in 3 of those places. Not Navy.

Jimmy

Is it 'angry week'? My lass gets just like you once a month.

"I hate Crabs"

"Ignore the Trolls/'Senior' Service wallies. Please please please don't feed them. You'll keep them here so they won't be able to go and play with each other in dresses."

"I hate WAFU's"

"THINK OF THE BLOKES ON THE GROUND DOING THE REAL JOB AND PAYING FOR IT."

God help us all:mad:

Mod's, please do the decent thing.

Jimmycoo1

Remind everyone, who's helicopters go in with the brave MERT teams and recover casualties in the current and past theatres. Who's aircraft do re-supply in very difficult conditions. Maybe worth thinking before speaking

Lets be serious. There is no reason that this should be occurring. 10 people in a hotel when accommodation is offered is criminal. Get off your high horse about single rooms - things have changed, aircrew are getting perfectly good sleep 4 or more to a room.

Some of the attitudes on show here make it unsurprising what our army colleagues thinks of us. Grow up, one team, stop looking out for ourselves at the expense of reality.
:ugh:

Of course a considerable amount more than £2,000 could have been saved, for the front line, if the Exercise (I am assuming it is an Exercise and Bardufoss isn't full of Libyans, AQ, or Brits requiring evacuation) had been cancelled in the first place.... :ok:





Oh yes, the operating cost of Typhoon has been quoted as £80,000 an hour - get 1 Typhoon pilot to do one less circuit at the end of a sortie and you save about £6,000! Simples!!!

What are the operating costs of a Type 45 per day, a air defence Destroyer without any air defence missiles...

How much does it cost to run a challenger tank for a day......


People in glass houses..........

Hardly Worth it

Perhaps,instead of looking stupid, you will take time to explain hiow long you have been 69 degrees North and how much LSA and LOA you have trousered. Just how good is RNOAF Bardufoss with cheap beer on tap in milliways today?

Give us a clue as to your daily rate of LOA

Perhaps you would like to explain why being in Norg results in a bigger pay packet than is paid to those in Kaf or Bastion and how you have been so disadvantged.

Base party or Sqdn?......let us all know as you need shaming!...I'm intrigued having done Winters in 94/95/96/98/01/02 with both 46&45 @ Bardufoss, Fagerness & Eveness.

Talk Reaction
 

Some things have changed but I dont think that the rules for RAF Aircrew accommodation have. Its a peace time route, the crew would be foolish to go against SOPs unless there was a very good reason. The SI test applies.

"I presume that the accn you offered allowed personnel to get an undisturbed nights sleep in single man rooms?

Or do you want a tired C130 crew flying you out over the mountains?"

To be fair, it is exactly the same accomodation that rotary crews use for several months every single winter and achieve crew rest period in order to go flying IN ont OVER the mountains every single day and night of the training period.

Perhaps flying a C130 from one full facilities civvy airfield to LYN is harder then flying loads in recirculating snow at night...............I wouldn't know as I have never done the former.

BUMLINE
 

Unless the C130 crew are a designated part of and named on the ex op order your point does not apply; the crew would be in sub standard accommodation and therefore breaking the rules. This really is an AT bashing non thread.

Right, and stop learning the fatigue lessons learned from 100yrs of air transport and start risking putting jets and their loads into a hilllside. I'm sure the 'one team' would seriously start asking questions as and when that happened:mad:

It's a peacetime Ex. Grow up. The term "air-worthiness" covers a lot more than the just the techie world these days!

Hunker down
 

The way morale is going, this could develop into a real mud-slinger. Op Order or not there's accom available - get on and use it and stop the pathetic line-in-the-sand we need proper crew rest hotac (and bar). I do sometimes wonder how 2 Gp crews can support such obvious 'grind' that is generated between the services when this stuff is exposed and for no real reason.

Jimmy,

Wind your neck in. Your hardly in a service which can claim its anymore deserving of applause then any of the other services! Tell me how have you enjoyed your ski trip up norf?

Im hoping your not too spineless to tell your opinions to the crew when they arrive on friday, Or will you just do as your told and be thankful when you are returned to the UK?

Jimmy if you actually knew why this was the case maybe you wouldnt be embarrassing yourself and your service by writing such tosh!

xenolith

you're quite right the rules haven't changed and STILL don't say anything about single rooms, just uninterupted rest. Many aircrew with far more demanding jobs get by living in multiple bunked rooms on various shifts or even, god forbid, tents!

Stop being sanctimonious, using phrases like sub-standard rooms :mad:

We were all up in arms about MPs taking the system for a ride, what do you think stories like the one at the start of this thread sound like.

Yes...and so do Herc and other AT crews when required. If this is a trg trip then it'll be one of precious few for them! I'd suggest the trg T&S budget is brimming as they haven't had much chance to use it lately...you'd be more worried if you knew the true extent of the lack of continuity and training at the moment than to bother with this non-thread:ugh:

Are you telling me you haven't ever seen a spend in the last month of the financial year?

291paspine. Sort out your atrocious spelling. It makes a post difficult to read.

'' Hardly worth it'' - do try not to complain too loudly on the aircraft, i'm sure there's a lovely butty box waiting for you on your comfortable 5 hour trip home.

:ok:

Forget,

Sort your life out and focus on the topic of this thread rather than your self imposed role as the S&G Police.

291Paspine, terrible grammar and spelling aside (!) does make a valid point.

I wonder if the complainers will approach the captain and make their views known???

After all, it will be solely his fault that the accommodation was booked for the crew by travel cell ( or Ascot Ops, or Dscom, seeing as it's their task).

:ugh:

The benchmark to be used in this non-operational case is the standard of public accommodation that would be used back at base. If the crew had to be accommodated at/close to Lyneham overnight, they sure as hell should not be sent to the Wiltshire Hotel , unless the station could not accomodate them.

So, does the service accm at Bardufoss meet the standards of the messes and barracks at Lyneham? From what I remember of the Sgts Mess, its not difficult to meet.

Next question: can the capt (or his Flt Cdr) claim that he needs to keep all of his crew co-located (same building) overnight?) Difficult to answer yes with a structured transop that everybody is briefed on. Mobile phones now obviate the need to keep the crew together.

I think it is very difficult for anyone to justify hotac when acceptable service accm close to the airfield is available.

Clearly the crews do not make the decisions at the planning stage. As was always the case when I was an Ascoteer, someone else booked the hotel, the hire cars and the imprest well within the bounds of Gp Orders, to ensure that they could not be brought to book when the crew complained of fatigue. I suggest the Ops staff (at Gp?) should review their methods. "we always do it this way, because its easy (1 phone call to hotac)" is no longer good enough. Its certainly indefensible, regardless of any reference to finances.

Regards
Ed

Oh FFS!
 

Where to begin...

Well 1st off you all sound like a bunch of phuquing children who have had their toys taken off them - MAN UP THE LOT O' YER!

To the Poster of this thread "Hardly worth it"
- Its alright to have an opinion and even hate crabs, I dont hate them, I just feel that they have their own agenda like the other 2 services. And BTW Opinons are like ar5sh0les - everyones got one.

To the winging (mainly) Light blue - Yes you need rest somewhere quiet for undisturbed sleep. How about taking tent to the other end of the Airfield where there is no Bar or nightlife to disturb you. I know I'd feel a lot safer on Crab AT if I'd known the crew hadn't been getting "Relaxed as newts" the night before. And you wouldn't come in for quite as much attention from people like H_O_W

Sorry for the rant but I feel for you all - whatever coulour of uniform you wear but acting like a bunch of bl00dy drama queens is not going to help. :ugh:

You mis spelt phuquing!!!

:O

Talk Reaction
 

Do RAF pilots need less rest than airline crews, if so could some one tell me why?
AT crews on the Herrick are flying a regular roster/rest pattern that would not be allowable in a civilian operation. Their own medical people have said that in a recent report that the operation does not provide adequate rest after dificult operational consecutive night sectors.
It seems a macho thing amongst some on PPrune that service crews are different, although flying RAF 'airliners' in mainly civil airspace.
Just because you are in the Services does not mean you have to live in a tent in the desert when proper facilites are available elsewhere.

Bu88er! - your right! ;)

Can't really be bothered entering into this one - I don't really care!

However, FWIW I have seen large scale waste and largesse from all 3 of the services over the years, including quite recently. Whether this is right or wrong, I care not, but our sister services do need to get their own houses in order before they start casting the first stone.

I am not aircrew, I have never worked on the Herc Force. But pretty much everyone on here has had experience of the good bits of Service life, and everyone has had some rough bits as well. Some people will always like to have a willy-waving competition about whose had it the hardest.

It is a very reasonable point that if there is adequate accomm available, why not use it to save money. However, I think there comes a point when the race to the bottom in terms of allowances (and banter :}) becomes a bit silly. We could all start staying in YHA hostels, and it might help in PR11. But the money saved won't get spent on new kit, it'll end up being taken as a saving next year and spent on social security payments for chavs. So there's a balance: sure, it would be crass to stay in a 5 star hotel if there is adequate accomm next door... But equally putting a flight crew in the fairly average 3 star Bardufoss Hotel for a night is not automatically outrageous, especially as no one except the person who did the accomm plot really knows the score. This week they might stay in an average hotel, next week they might get shot at.

Incidentally, a quick check of hotels.com would show that the Bardufoss Hotel costs less than half the £200 a night some seem to think it costs...

PS, what are you doing in Bardufoss that you couldn't be doing in Otterburn? :E