Big E
 

The NFZ will happen, the USS Enterprise is returning back through the Suez canal. With the proximity of friendly airfields, the carrier is hardly needed, just the determination and FJ.

Trim Stab,

Have you not been watching the news? It doesn't make any difference if it is minor misuse - it is still misuse. Note that in my post it stated opposition. That opposition is made up of defecting Libyan forces personnel and civilians.

The point is that the majority of the International Community think that Gadaffi's position is untenable and that to prevent further blood shed he should go. The whole point of the NFZ would be to take away his capability to inflict mass casualties and make it clear that his regime is over. Even discussion and threat of military action could possibly influence Gadaffi to realise that the game is up? No doubt the pressure of military action is also being put on Gadaffi via the remaining diplomatic channels.

The situation is confused at the moment due to the ongoing evacuation of foreign nationals. Any direct military action or enforcement at this time is risky until the evacuation process is complete. With the evacuation of foreign nationals complete the easiest option, even by a Coalition of the willing, is to take Gadaffi's toys away from him. It wouldn't take much to JDAM/Paveway loyalist airfields and plink the remaining air force inventory.

Once the evacuation of foreign nationals is complete I can see things developing. Gaddafi has been on TV interview last night ranting about Al Qaeda being the opposition. In order to prevent Gadaffi from taking a last stand I can see a Coalition involved in taking his air force out with Loyalist runways destroyed and aircraft plinked. It is a lot easier than simply establishing a No Fly Zone on its own.

The WMD issue appears to be clear. After seeing what was about to happen to Saddam, Gadaffi back in 2003 came clean to the west about its WMD programme. Inspectors were allowed in and destruction was implemented by UN inspectors during 2004.

IAEA Praises Libya for Disarmament Efforts | Arms Control Association

At the same time, international efforts to dismantle Libya’s chemical weapons program are progressing. On March 19, inspectors from the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW)—the organization that verifies compliance with the Chemical Weapons Convention—verified Tripoli’s March 5 initial chemical weapons declaration. According to the OPCW, Libya declared “approximately 23 metric tonnes of mustard gas, 1,300 metric tonnes of precursor chemicals, …[an] inactivated chemical weapons production facility, …[and] two chemical weapons storage facilities.”

Between Feb. 27 and March 3, the OPCW also “verified… the complete destruction” of more than 3,500 unfilled bombs “designed to disperse chemical warfare agent,” according to organization press releases. The OPCW stated March 22 that it intends to verify Libya’s destruction of the remaining chemical agents.

IAEA Inspections in Libya Making Progress

BBC NEWS | Africa | 'No reward' for non-nuclear Libya


TJ

Oh My Gawd,

I hadn't appreciated Trim Stab was infected this thread aswell as the 'Congrats Herc' thread whereas he's p1ssed off the RAF are poaching his salary.

Come on Trim Stab, despite your operator being able to operate into disused airstrips how might your operator, B737, A320 or whatever, serve to enforce a NFZ?

You have to be desperately short of money because you're off your head mate!

Looks like any intervention will escalate beyond a NFZ. I think some ground forces might be needed.

The US has a carrier and an amphib group moving to the area.

FT.com / Middle East & North Africa - West weighs military measures

We need to plan it now says Dave. BBC

To Libya We Go
 

C'mon lads, saddle up!

Reports in that Brit Tornados and Typhoons will be deployed ex-Cyprus although I can't see why we couldn't use one of the southern Italian bases or even the US facility in Malta.

What a scumbag and what a relief it will be if he goes - I don't think Libyans even know what liberty feels like!

Good fighting boys.

Earl

I think it might be unwise to put too much confidence in air power alone, depending on the mission and its desired effects. Even an effective and successful NFZ operation including offensive measures against opposing air force and GBAD assets, eventually resulting in air supremacy (more or less), would perhaps be of limited value to the Libyan population given the threats on the ground.

Again I think the experiences from the Balkans and Iraq should be considered if a similar effort is to be made in Libya. I realise that an effectively enforced NFZ might be a lot better than no action at all, but can we settle with a limited effect against hostile ground forces doing a lot more damage than the air force?

There aren't so many military air bases in Libya, I understand Benghazi/Benina airfield has already been put out of action, and watching TV today they're getting well organised in Benghazi recruiting and training up a military force to take the madman and his forces on.

If one thinks about it they didn't require international help when the Lockerbie bomber returned to Libya, they were happy enough to rub our faces in it then, some are asking for uinternational help now but it seems they're also preparing to sort the madman out for themselves.

I did have to smile though, there's a significant munitions stockpile near Ajdabiya, Gaddafi keeps sending the air force across to bomb it and the crews keep missing the target ..... One does have to ask how significant a NFZ might be as it seems the air force aren't taking their orders too seriously anyway?

Trim Stab

Plenty of "non article 5" NATO action in the past (and present in Afghanistan), which is why they award stuff like this:

http://www.omsa.org/photopost/data/6...NATO_non-5.jpg

Who knows, if it is a NATO op, I might be able to wear this one this time around! :ok:

The B Word

Just stop right there boyos, let's not get involved in another politico wankfest OK.

Glad Rag. Agree.

To the rest:

Never mind that there might be new and interesting opportunities to bomb people.

Just remember: These are events in a Foreign Country. The People of the Country will sort it out for themselves, or live with the consequences.

I repeat, Libya is a FOREIGN country, you know, like Afghanistan and Iraq.

The UK has sweet ZERO to do here.

Move along............FFS!:rolleyes:

After (or now even during) an operation, the military gets cut. So if we do get involved, and I hope we don't, then this will be like a suicide mission!

Never mind the logistics of where a NFZ might be operated from, what about the fact the RAF top brass have been saying for sometime now that they've only just enough Typhoons to cover UK northern and southern QRA duties and Falklands air defence, so can't deploy Typhoon in the close air support role in Afghanistan (assuming it's ready for the role), let alone supporting a NFZ...

Headmaster Cameron states that a NFZ would be for humanitarian reasons. So why did his heroine The Iron Lady not adopt the same stance over the likes of Mugabe, etc, etc? The hypocrisy and double-standards adpoted by our minority elected, inexperienced and point-scoring politicians is unbelievable if it weren't so true.

Does the PM, the Chief of the Air Staff, or their 'advisors' really know what they're doing?

Two US warships, the USS Kearsarge and USS Ponce, enter the Suez Canal en route for the Mediterranean, after orders from Defence Secretary Robert Gates that they should move closer to Libya

Not forgetting the 175 aircraft permanently assigned to the US Navy's Sixth Fleet in the Med, which would make any deployment by the RAF to enforce a NFZ somewhat insiginificant...

Any British offering is likely to seem insignificant militarily when compared to the scale of the US forces, but politically, that's another thing.

We do also offer certain niche capabilities and reputations, mind you. ;)

is there really a USS Ponce?

The mind boggles ...... is it a floating bath and brothel unit, or do we have a different usage?

Much as faggots?

Baflled of Baston

The USN has an airbase, NAS Sigonella roughly 300nm from Tripoli and 400nm from Benghazi. (I see parked C-17s, C-135 tankers and P3 Orions: NAS Sigonella- Google Maps)

Pentagon thoughts: (looks like bombs have to be dropped for a NFZ to done properly)

Pentagon hesitant on no-fly zone over Libya - Wash Post

(google news is great)

Cameron retreats from Libya no-fly plan after US shows caution | World news | guardian.co.uk

Maybe we should establish a NFZ over Charlie Sheen too...


Charlie Sheen v Muammar Gaddafi: whose line is it anyway? | World news | guardian.co.uk