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Have I missed it? Where are the 5000 RAF personnel going from?
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Nurse,
I fully share your concerns - see this thread which petered out six months ago... http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...oint+Nimrod+R1 |
interesting the 12 new chinooks are being linked to the Army
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Through ignorance?
So whats the story with the Chinook? Are these new orders, or orders previously announced? Is this a reduction of previously announced orders? Does this cover the HC3? |
there wasn't an order for new chinooks!
there was an aspiration for 22 new chinooks but no contracts or funding allocated by the looks of it. |
The 22 new Chinooks were supposed to be funded from the savings made by introducing the SAR-H programme. Whether this actually works (especially if SAR-H goes ahead with no mil involvement) remains to be seen...
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RAF Manpower Cuts
Grabbers asked where the cut of 5000 personnel would come from. A combination of cancellation of Nimrod MRA4, Kinloss not required as an RAF base, disbandment of the Harrier force, Cottesmore not required as an RAF base, ASTOR to be retired when no longer required in Afghanistan (2015 ? if you believe that) and presumably efficiencies in ATAR manning as new aircraft types phase in will all effect the total force numbers required. As always, manning will be controlled though a combination of adjusting retention and recruiting, and probably offers of redundancy.
The RAF has coped with much more draconian cuts before and will rise to the challenge again, although clearly the years ahead will be both difficult and disappointing to some. I once met a former Canberra sqn cdr in the 1980s who recounted how 150 of his fellow aircrew sqn ldrs discovered that their services were no longer required in their current role via a list of names posted on the Officers' Mess notice board ! Clearly many thousands more aircrew and groundcrew were affected by this bolt from the blue. Some will remember the times when the Canberra bomber variants (qty 100s), Belfast (qty 10), Britannia (qty 22) and Argosy (qty 56) fleets disappeared in very short order. |
So what about Puma 2 & Wildcat?
Any news on these little gems?
I assume the Wildcat is going ahead as it would most likely have been mentioned in the PM's speech. Puma 2 seems to have had no mention either - I assume that gets the go-ahead despite rumours of only 12 before today? Anyone in the know? |
The Defence Trg PFI at St Athan has been canx, will this see the demise of MFTS and SARH? I do hope so...............
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Wildcat
appleavi8or
Wildcat is going ahead but no numbers mentioned (Page 25). http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum...=furl&CRE=sdsr |
will this see the demise of MFTS and SARH? Puma 2 seems to have had no mention either |
Whilst the impact upon the military will be massive, I can't help but feel sorry for our civilian colleagues as well. To lose 25,000 personnel from a total of only 87,000 is quite hideous!
:ouch: |
Have I missed it? Where are the 5000 RAF personnel going from? |
DIN on the subject today mentioned that a Redundancy Package would be announced 'Later today'.
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I'm missing something. I note more than the occasional throw-way line regarding new ISTAR capabilities (in all three sevices) but it seem a little vague. As for the Nimrod maritime capability being replaced by other assets...............
All the signs of a rush job.:ugh: |
The "R" Word
RAFEngO
Changes on this scale cannot be managed by the usual manning regulators. A redundancy scheme will be run for Service personnel and a paid early release scheme for civilians in accordance with the usual arrangements for such schemes, including - in the case of civilians - consultation with the Trade Unions. The above taken from the MoD website. I wonder how attractive the redundancy package will be? Not expecting much if I'm honest. I'm also curious as to why the "...150 aircrew sqn ldrs" was highlighted. Are/were they more deserving than the rest? |
Grabbers
The story was recounted to me by one of the sqn ldrs involved and I used it to illustrate the enormous scale of the cuts. He didn't mention how many other aircrew and groundcrew were involved but clearly it must have been in the many thousands. Prior to those cuts, RAF strength had been around 100,000, a figure almost unimaginable today. |
Re SAR-H , North Devon MP & Defence Minister Pr#*$k, no I mean Nick Harvey stated in the local rag , North Devon Journal , that the Chiv. SAR Flt could possibly re-locate to Exeter Airport when civilianized , also the Merlin could be used for SAR work ????
:ugh::ugh: |
I know this will sound a bit silly, but, assuming a reasonably even amount of cut from each service, if only 3% is saved by culling 2 complete fleets of Aircraft what the heck is the other 97% spent on?
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RAFEngO
All clear now. Wonder how the Govt will spin the, I anticipate paltry, redundancy package though. :{ |
I note a references to Chinook, Merlin, Wildcat and Apache in the SDSR, but not Sea King. Does this infer that the MK4's are to go in 2012 as published and what about those in the SAR role?
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Redundancy packages.
JSP 764 PART 5 COMPENSATION FOR REDUNDANCY - THE REGULAR ARMED FORCES Chapter 4 ARMED FORCES REDUNDANCY SCHEME 1975-LEAVERS BETWEEN 6 APRIL 2010 – 31 MARCH 2013 This Chapter is reserved for new rules which are yet to be fully approved. Oh dear...........:( |
interesting there is no mention of ownership of helecopters as some stuff mentioned under army so will be interesting to see how it pans out.
Wasn't the original plan for the RAF to Relinquish the Merlin force to the Navy when they got the new Chinooks? So with Puma staying and New Chinooks on order that may still be the plan we'll have to see |
Smacks of the Air Force withdrawing within itself. Maritime supports RN; RN wants CVS at the expense of Army/RAF; RAF cuts MPA. RAF also cuts GR9.
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all the talk of loss of experience on ship operations with withdrawal of harrier. Since we're going back to cat/trap aircraft isn't the Harrier skill set no very relevant?
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Carriers with no embarked Air Wing - what is the point?
How many Heli Assault/Amphib platforms could we have bought for the price of the 2 carriers? No embarked air for a decade - lets hope Argentina aren't watching! |
Could a rotary mate explain the logic behind the retention of the Puma upgrade? In the light of everything else it looks a rather strange decision.
Maybe helicopters are simply too sensitive:confused: |
no mention in the whole document on the Commando helicopter force or SAR replacement?
so could be some helicopter cuts hidden away |
Just this once can you show where your analysis of CHF comes from?
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The irony is that we're now looking at redundancies whilst Financial Retention Incentives are still being offered!
I wonder if the RN really need to offer FRIs to fast-jet pilots for an extra 5 years of service, when their next fast-jets are much further in the future than that? |
interesting as 3 commando brigade is spefically mentioned as being one of the high readyness units so your brief puts them reducing by the strength of a full Commando
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Why are we keeping the E3? I am bemused after today but that one really suprised me. No offence to the guys who work on the E3 but do we need AWACS when the PM spouts of **** about getting rid of the cold war war thinking. :ugh:
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Yes E3 stays it would make more sense to loose 3 E3 airframes to be converted to Rivet Joint
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Education Allowance
Something else that appears to be "below the line":
Strategic Defence Review: school fees withdrawn from Army Families - Telegraph The review commits the Ministry of Defence to saving £300 million-a-year from allowances to servicemen and women and civilian staff. Sources suggested that this would result in significant cuts to the Continuity of Education Allowance, under which children from Forces families can attend independent schools. Last year, the MoD spent £172.8 million on the allowance, which was claimed by around 6,000 service personnel. Although some Labour MPs describe the fund as an officers’ perk, the scheme is in fact available to levels of the Armed Forces. Last year nearly 2,500 claimants were below officer ranks. The allowance enables allows youngsters to remain at the same school in the United Kingdom while their forces parents are being sent to different postings around the world. A small number of civilian workers employed by the Ministry of Defence are also able to claim the money when they are posted overseas, at a cost to the taxpayer of around £1 million a year. General Sir Richard Dannatt, the former Chief of the General Staff, has spoken in the past of his support for the scheme. He said: “The freedom of choice and stability in the formative years of our children that this scheme offers are essential to the wellbeing of our Armed Forces.” |
I'm afraid this has been a dreadful example of individual services thinking of themselves and stuff the overall package, with the RAF as much of a villain as the other two services. Until the last moment, the Tornados were going to be withdrawn over the next five years, and then the RAF jumps in and insists it has to keep some, so the RN's Harriers have to go, leaving no aircraft to fly from the carriers. The decision to get rid of Sentinel and keep AWACs also looks like a duff idea. If a fleet had to go it should have been Tornado not Harrier. That at least would have provided a balanced overall package.
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If a fleet had to go it should have been Tornado not Harrier |
Future of Wittering?
As an ex-mil and now a local civvie who has an interest in the base, I was wondering when a decision on the future of RAF Wittering is likely. When are we likely to find out if is staying RAF, switching to Army or closing?
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Why are we keeping the E3? |
From what everyone says the Tornado Fleet was on its last legs anyway, why stretch more out of something thats due to be scrapped soon. Same with Puma extend it after a quick refit. I know we require choppers but in 5 years time at the next conflict we will be relying on something dropping ordanance on targets to make way for our 100,000 Army troops to march in and join us for tea & medals.
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"The Merlin force will be upgraded to enhance its ability to support amphibious operations."
This was to happen anyway with the transfer to CHF. It doesn't mention that the MK3 Merlin will be retained by the RAF. |
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