RAF Regiment Lance Corporals.
 

I was at Honington last week, and noticed the Regt now has L/Cpls - long overdue in light of its infantry role, and called for as long as I could ever remember.

Is the measure going to be rolled out across the RAF (will TSW etc introduce the rank with its 'detached' role?) and do L/Cpls have disciplinary authority over SAC(T)s? It seems that the introduction of L/Cpl devalues that Techie grade, so why not introduce it across the board - why mess about with the rank of SAC(T) in the first place?

RAF - News by Date

A good move then. But its probably a lot easier to justify making up a (relatively speaking, cheaper to promote and pay) Lance Cpl to Acting Cpl and excusing a cut in the training budget, than it is to make up an SAC to Acting Cpl, or to fund an SAC through expensive FT1 training, to then have him 'just' sit in a Stn Regt Flt.

As a former Rockape I found that very interesting - thanks Al. I think I'm right in saying the last time a single rank chevron was worn was when J/T's came in, before they switched to the 4-bladed prop - but that was inverted in any case. I may be wrong though

How long before we just adopt, across the board, the rank structure of the British Army?

The LCpl rank was introduced because of the need for an easily identifiable leader at section 2IC and fire team level.. it's a direct equivalent of what goes on in Army infantry platoons.
No, because the rest of the RAF doesn't operate fire teams in battle, so there's no need for it.
Yes, because they're NCOs. But in practice an RAF Regiment NCO wouldn't have anything to do with another trade SAC in every day discipline... he's got that rank primarily to to lead and keep his own fire team lads in line. Of course, just as with any NCO rank in the forces, he would have a duty to discipline other trades if needed, but an SACs own line management should really be on top of it's own personnel.
I don't think it devalues it at all, I think you're probably confusing pay grades with ranks. Not the same thing.

Hi '72,

I used the word 'grade' deliberately, because although it is awarded to denote superior responsibility, it still isn't the same as rank - which also is.

I asked about TSW because I was wondering if it gave SACs a similar level of responsibility in a FARP etc.

Still prefer the old JT, best rank in the RAF. And for what it's worth no JT worth his salt would have listened to a thing a lance jack had to say in disciplinary terms.

Our biggest problem is the parity around the CT/CPO/FS/CSgt level.

Why weren't we told this before on PPRuNe? Al, your link is dated 12 April 2010. The new rank was wef 1 April 2010. There has to be an agenda here, a cover up, a scandal perhaps?

Is this the thin edge of the wedge for the RAF Regiment? First the good news and then perhaps the not so good news. I suppose the next phase to watch out for will be the QCS performing their Ceremonial Duties with Army rather than RAF Drill movements.

I noticed last year when they mounted guard at Windsor they were ordered; "Out the Escorts" who doubled at the High Port from the rear of the guard to march either side of the Guard Commander on leaving Victoria Barracks. Is that in the RAF Drill Manual? Well is it?

Mark my words, yeah doomed I say, doomed!

About two months ie a week or so after the SDSR announces the disbanding of the RAF...:{

What's listening got to do with anything? MAA does not require he on the recieving end to give a sympathetic ear. A charge is a charge whether you listen or not.

That JT is clearly not worth his salt if he deliberately ignored a legal order from an NCO. There is a section in the MML which gives an example charge, and it is extremely simple, along the lines of "LCpl Smith ordered Pte Jones to stand to attention, which Jones failed to do". Substitute AC, LAC, JT, SAC, SAC(T) for Pte and we are good to go.

Many of the Army's LCpls are awarded the rank on completion of a long course, and are on the higher pay band. Often the JTs erroneously thought their pay grade was higher. Perhaps they were comparing their own tech pay to an MT driver's pay. Certainly on the RAF stations I served on (as a LCpl at the time), the Army LCpls were on the old Band 3, but at LCpl level, not Pte, therefore the JTs lost on pay AND rank. Membership of the Cpls' Club was also an issue for them, and compulsory for us.

The whole thing comes back to the RAF counting promotions while the Army counts chevrons. Unfortunately for the RAF, QRs backs up the Army every time.

Agreed, Jayand
Although J/T's wore a stripe, albeit upside down, (of which I was once a proud wearer) they were not NCO's but were highly respected by their colleagues.

From Wikipedia (admitadly!):

<<RAF Regiment Lance Corporal's have powers of charge over Aircraftman, Leading Aircraftman and Senior Aircraftman, but not, Junior Technician and Senior Aircraftman Technician, which, despite being OR2, require a Corporal OR4 or above to charge if required.>>

I also noticed today, that 58 Sqn RAF Regt is reforming at Lossie - a pre-SDSR sacrifical lamb maybe.

I think some are getting a bit confused; nco's report offences, the scrote's own Officer Commanding is the guy who actually reads the charge and passes what ever award is appropriate. When my own LCpl's had to deal with a JT for whatever reason, the RAF's own discipline system always kicked in.

Some of you lot are getting a bit senile:

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...ml#post4621763

Chugalug - paranoid about something? You need a Sanatogen and a nap methinks.

Christ, I had forgotten about that.

Chuggers was being ironic methinks. :ok:

Without wishing to be funny is this appointmrnt a tortology ???

"Force Commander RAF Force Protection Force"

Bluntie

Couldnt agree less that any J/T worth his salt etc... I was a J/T once and never, ever rated myself as equivalent to a Lance Coporal - I just put my feet up and enjoyed the extra money. ;)
As for wearing the stripes. You have authority, and by definition every request you make is an order, irrespective of your phrasing it as such - a point which I had to make on a number of occasions to the occasional airman who worth his salt...etc.
Its nice when people act out of respect, but just in case they don't respect you, its nice to wield the power!!

Al R:
Oh not just me then. Welcome to the club! Thanks for the heads up Mr H. Your analysis - spot on!
Yeah, I can do that! Just remind again though, how....?

I had a bloke tried that on me once and got stroppy when I told him to listen and do what he was told (I'm an effing skilled tradesman etc etc). Went up the chain of command and the (non-regiment) station commander gave him 14 days to reflect on the error of his ways.

Nowadays he'd probably get counselling because the nasty Regiment officer told him off!