Should the RAF be scrapped? (merged)
 

Today (Mon 9th Aug) Jeremy Vine (BBC Radio 2) speaks to someone who says that the RAF should be scrapped in order to save money from the public purse...

Anyone have an opinion? :confused:

On that logic, why not the Army and the Royal Navy as well?

And the Fire Service.

And the Police.


It'll save heaps.

Well, why not? Whilst we are at it we could also scrap the NHS, the Dept for Work and Pensions, FCO etc - all to save money. Utter tripe and based on un-confounded leaks and hearsay. No decisions have been made yet; only options discussed and by that very process of discussing all the options then some hares will be set running. We still have the 4th largest spend of GDP on defence of any country so maybe we should trim back and stop trying to police the world for a few years

We should all just wait and see; what will be will be, but with Liam Fox saying last week that the amalgamation of the RAF and Navy would be too much for any Government to stomach I just see this as bored media types with airwaves and column inches to fill.

The British Armed Forces
 

Dave and Nick seem to think the Canadians have answers for all questions. Since the Canucks went from their three services to Candian Armed Forces back in the 1960's, maybe we'll follow them, and the Belgians....

If we do then there are all sorts of other savings that could come about, on things like uniforms. If you mix Navy and RAF Blue, with Army green, don't you end up with a purplish hue?

Anyone out there fancy that?

If (big if) we do this, does this mean that, like our cousins, the jets have British armed forces on one side, and a bit in Welsh, Gallioc and many other languages on t'other?

Must go, those nice people in white coats just arrived with my afternoon tablets.....

Just listened to...
 

...ex-navy t$$t basically advertising his new venture with a load of bulls$$t about stuff he obviously hasn't a clue about.

Then JV is really a Dail Mail readers forum isn't he...

5d2d

What goes around comes around. The RAF was formed before the end of WW1 in order that it be "an Independent Airforce", that is free to exploit airpower in the form of strategic bombing (with aircraft such as the HP 0/400). However, peace nearly put paid to it and it was only by undercutting the cost of Iraq ops as proposed by the Army that Trenchard kept his shrivelled baby alive. It was WW2 and the renewed use of strategic bombing, which this time extended post war in the guise of the V Force, that ensured its continued independence. Now that much strategic airpower has passed to the Royal Navy in the form of Trident and Tomahawk we are almost back to square one. With present incumbents weaned on a diet of "Fighter Command good, Bomber Command bad", the RAF's raison d'etre seems to be in doubt within its own ranks let alone those without. "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it"!

Isn't it about time we heard what the Foreign & Commonwealth Office has to say about its policy for the future of the UK, BEFORE any discussion on what is or is not needed?

Until such a policy is stated, not even Dr. Fox can formulate a decision on what goes or stays! (It'll not stop him though as he is a political animal and cares little for the effect of his actions!):*

Too true FZ. We have after all been operating way outside the bounds of the last SDR for a long time.

When our chiefs get the reduced budget this time, they should have a contract against a set of scenarios we could cope with (a single village armed with sharpened guava fruit) and a contract statement that anything above and beyond that has to be separately funded

Probably a good idea ... especially since the USA won't be defending GB any more.

Per Ardua Ad Astra...
 

Is this where it all ends? :(


http://7t5.co.uk/Halton%20Camp/Astra%20Cinema%2B.jpg...

Someone attempting to be helpful no doubt, pity they were talking out of the methane valve outlet. :cool:

Per Ardua ad Astra: After work, we go to the cinema?

Jeremy Vine provides Tabloid type current affairs programmes. What next.....scrap the RAF because a Transgender Gypsy on Jeremy Kyle said so......:rolleyes:

14 Posts so far and nobody has argued against scrapping the RAF.

What do we need the RAF for ? What do they provide that someone else couldn't provide? AT ? Could the Army do that? SH ?.... again...the Army could do that. SAR...thats going so no snags there... Typhoon... we need the RAF for Fast Jets...Army wouldn't be interested in that and its too difficult for the RN.

If we look at history, it tells us that to have a large and effective combat ready armed force on home soil, the easiest way is to radically cut defence spending...

That's a fact that simply cannot be argued with!
























It will of course be another countries force, after an invasion due to the home countries lack of credible defence.......But will be a large and effective force none the less!:E

Rock on Tommy, if you think Gateway House is bad ..........:}

vecvechookattack
RN would obviously argue that they can do fast jets. Indeed the argument would probably run that if you had all jets carrier capable then they could flex between force project and homeland defence when needed.

The RN can do "Embarked Fast jets" very well but they are not very good at the Land thing.... Best leave that to the experts

British Airways? :}

The RAF supports huge numbers of 'hangers on' and useless idiot top staff and is repeatedly ripped off by suppliers who must joke among themselves " how many zeroes shall we add on this invoice ?! "

However it seems to have saved this country, unlike the berks of all political flavours except Winston Churchill ( a rarity indeed ) what was it he said ?!

A dear friend once wrote to me in a book, " He who would wish to know what shall be, must first know what has gone before ".

Bin the politicians first, this lot in particular with their banker chums, bring on the Replublic !

( I wasn't a leftie until forced recently )

DZ

The argument that 'the Army could do that' works both ways. The Air Force could do the army stuff with the bods and equipment, similarly the Navy could too. Gifting the Air Force folks and equipment to the Army, does't mean they can do it...:ugh:

Seek the 'Two Johns' on youtube for the discussion re. having how many Admirals related to how many major ships; I'm actually pro-Navy ( particularly FAA ) but it is a good point, with humour.

Not to state the obvious BUT, assuming they decided to give the navy the option of providing UK defence from there flat tops as was mentioned on the radio.
Only the harrier out off the airforce currant aircraft can used on carriers !
So are we to up the order for F-35's??
Buy F18's as mentioned on the other thread (or buy French !!!!)

What am saying is NONE off these options are cheap so they are not going to save any cash .
And is going to cost more !

If they canned the RAF and transferred all the equipment to the Army/RN how many personnel do you think would go with it? If individuals had wanted to 'dig in' they would have joined the Army and if they had wanted to 'give up' they would have joined the Navy.;)
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.... and before anyone else says it, if they had wanted to wear RAC patrolmans uniform, nylon trousers, clothes from George at Asda and white socks then they would have joined the Air Force. Which they did!:p

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4134/...e697a2be_z.jpg

Ok, so that's sorted then, you Air Commodores will all transfer over to the Army in the rank of Colonel, you Sergeants will all become RSM's what ever they are and I am sorry, but there does not appear to be a position for a Royal on their manning strength, I would suggest you go along with the man in the funny hat Sir and see if the Navy can find an opening for you.....

Senior RAF and army officers (and King George VI?) planning the next mission? | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I used to enjoy reading the debates on here, but instead it just descends into someone banging on about how great the Navy is. The debate here is that while some try to come up with an affordable, cost-effective solution to the provision of Defence capability, the narrow-minded brigade just see it as an opportunity to bash the RAF. People love to rush forward and tell their stories of how an organisation screwed up, or to highlight some nobs within it. I spent some of my time today trying to reach a solution with one of my Army bretheren who refused to see that his interpretation of a situation may be wrong and instead spent his time knocking my service. Great. Jointery is inhibited by the closed minds who can't move forward and instead spend their time calling names and making fun of things they don't understand.

Bernard Law Montgomery, also know as 1st Viscount Montgomery of Alamein once said:

"Air power is indivisible. If you split it up into compartments, you merely pull it to pieces and destroy its greatest asset, its flexibility. "

The Army Must Go!
 

An island nation needs a Navy and an Airforce to defend the homeland. It needs an Army to occupy lands that belong to others. It's about time we stopped pretending we are a major player.

'The Air Force could do the army stuff with the bods and equipment, similarly the Navy could too.'

Given the state of many an airman and officer that I have seen recently I very much doubt that. At the same time, the IQ of the average infantry soldier would exclude them from piloting a fast jet.

They are different jobs for different people.

The funniest point I heard on the JV show was from a lady that said her son was a RAF Chef...and soldier first.

I don't think so...:}

Anyway, roll on the end of Oct.

:ok:

Don't know what goes on in the RAF/Navy/Army nowadays, but back in the 70/80s, although we in the Airforce all had trades that were effectively our day jobs, we were also a source of manpower with a rifle. Try getting the civvy painters or the JPA terminal, to man a checkpoint or sanger.

An RAF Chef would never have been live armed, you had to have successfully completed your trade training before that could happen.

As the RAF Catering course is obviously the hardest course ever invented, must be as no one has ever passed it, cant see how an RAF Chef would ever be trusted with a rifle.

Actually Chef is a misnomer, if you look at their actual job title, they are

"Fitters and Turners"

They take perfectly good food, fit it into cooking containers and turn it into sh*t.. :p

And potentially able to kill more people without any ammunition :}

Garn, must be time for some PTI bashing, leave the food bashers alone :)

Indeed. Perhaps such 'experts' could form a new unit with new badges something like these?

http://jamjamtees.com/design_images/...-thumbnail.gif
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...MafnpB7JMVtIo=

Where can I get one of those for my Desking Suit?

Dan Gerous make a good point about being an armed guarding force during the 70/80s...but that is not being a soldier. They are very different things.

Being an infantry soldier today is a very complex game that involves some sophisticated bits of kit - it is not a case of pick up gun, run towards hill shooting and shouting - and this reinforces my point some posts ago about the RAF not being able to do the Army's job and vice versa. The average burden of 70kg is another issue.

You may ask how does the average Joe do this given his lack of schooling? By doing it again and again, and again, and relying on his mates, and this is his main job - not a part time activity inbetween engine changes, photography details, cooking lunch for the station or counting aircrew gloves in the stores. There are many parts of the Army that kid themselves that they could do the infantry job but this is far from the reality.

I look forward to Oct again

G:ok:

I've got a good idea. Cancel the RAF and create something called the Royal Flying Corps as part of the Army. Those who like fishing boats could re=form the RNAS!

Vine wine whine shwein
 

I don't know about the RAF - but can we scrap the malodorous Jeremy please? A more pointless and incipid broadcaster you'd be hard pressed to find.

Good use of the word 'incipid'. I prefer le deguster d' coque [apologies to all french speaking forum members for murdering your language].

I had Beef Wellington in London recently, and it wasn't a patch on the 1996 MCSU dish that I still remember with salivating chops.