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Changes to Criteria for Campaign Medals
At present, members of the Armed Forces who serve for 30 continuous days qualify for Iraq and Afghanistan campaign medals. Following a review, those who have served for an aggregate period of 45 days will also now be eligible. These changes will be backdated to the start of both operations.
Examples of Service personnel who could now be eligible include members of the aeromedical evacuation teams who accompany injured patients back to the UK. Under the new plans, personnel who deploy for short periods of time will be allowed to build up accrued days to achieve an aggregate qualifying period of 45 days' service. These changes have been approved by Her Majesty The Queen following recommendations by military Chiefs of Staff. Serving personnel who believe they may now be eligible should apply through their unit admin staff. Ex-Service personnel should contact the MOD Medal Office This was posted by the Ministry of Defence. For more information click here. |
Sadly, the guys and gals who fly Reaper from Nevada still don't qualify, even having flown 11,000hrs+ of missions and dropped more ordnance than the FJs. But if you're in the KAF "Hat Police" or dishing out Dollars in A1 then you do...
...where's the logic in that :ugh: |
Something to do with the likelyhood of IDF I suppose:ok:
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Hmmm, smacks of softening the blow pre-SDSR the cynic in me says....
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Medals
Reminds of of the story of the dentist who was posted from just outside basingstoke to a FJ station, who when attending her 1st dining in night at her new Stn asked why nobody wore medals:}.
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Don't tar all FJ stations with the F3 brush!
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Medal off
Leon Kissmeflaps said:
the guys and gals who fly Reaper from Nevada still don't qualify... But if you're in the KAF "Hat Police" or dishing out Dollars in A1 then you do... Because, unlike 'the KAF "Hat Police" or... A1' you've never been in theatre. It's very sad and bitter. I would have thought, if you've had as much kinetic effect as you proclaim, it would be enough to be proud of what you've done rather then denigrating everyone else's service - or overly concerning yourself with 'bling.' |
Pongochap, I'm sure the troops on the ground would be more in support about having a highly skilled pilot dropping bang on the right target, and possibly getting them out of very sticky situations getting a medal than the bluntie who hands out $ sat behind the wire etc :ok:...
Who cares if they have been "in" theatre?? If you play your part in the operation, you should get a medal IMHO, regardless of your role, and I would imagine there is a fair bit of stress being responsible for £££££ worth of UAV and dropping bang very very close to your own troops...... Yet again the services fall on thier own sword :ugh:... |
Good grief grow up.
In theatre = IDF and a medal (and a big pay packet when you come home) In Creech = going home for a shag and a beer (and quite a reasonale lifestyle for 3 years-ish) Personally I know which I'd prefer. Not totally sure how much risk the FJ guys are taking when airborne, is it really more than the Hat Police on the gate? |
It is pretty well publicised that Op Medals are awarded on the basis of "Risk & Rigour". Not awarding a medal to the UAV guys in no way diminishes their importance any more than those who served in Qatar, Oman etc, it simply recognises that very little "risk" or "rigour" is involved.
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"In Theatre" has always been widely interpreted. During the Falklands War the guys on Ascension subsequently got the South Atlantic Medal, but without the rosette which indicated service on The Falklands or the surrounding waters. Not a lot of risk, but a reasonable amount of rigour I assume.
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"In Theatre" has always been widely interpreted. During the Falklands War the guys on Ascension subsequently got the South Atlantic Medal, but without the rosette which indicated service on The Falklands or the surrounding waters. Not a lot of risk, but a reasonable amount of rigour I assume. |
Don't the guys (and girls?) from Creech go to KAF for the landing / takeoff bit? :confused: If so, you'll earn the medal.......:}
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Thank you Defence HQ for a good decision. Now, is there any chance that you could have a look at a couple of other related matters that many people think important, specifically:
- Some form of differentiation on the medal ribbon to indicate the difference in threat, risk and rigour undertaken by that individual. Perhaps that might ameliorate some of the earlier posters. Perhaps a HELMAND bar, or something? - Something to indicate repeated tours? I am sure that there are plenty of guys now on their fourth (in-the-field) 6-monther, and I know a couple of RAF types on their 8th op det. - Battle Honours with right of emblazonment for unit Standards/Colours etc? Just a thought... |
In theatre = IDF and a medal (and a big pay packet when you come home) In Creech = going home for a shag and a beer (and quite a reasonale lifestyle for 3 years-ish) IMHO if a medal is for contribution to the op then Creech based personnel should get it, together with CAOC personnel and many in PJHQ. If it is for "risk and rigor" then anyone that goes outside the wire should get it. Those who stay constantly inside have a less clear claim. There should certainly be some clear differentation between the KAF huggers and the guy that goes on foot patrol. |
If only it was that easy, kitbag. What about those that only fly over theatre, have zero operational risk as they aren't based in theatre and still get a medal? As for the guff about PJHQ and others out of the declared operational area deserving it ....:mad: |
Originally Posted by Kitbag
(Post 5850849)
accrue time on the ground in theatre (small chunks to = 45 days, or continuously for 30 days), get recognised for it
The other catch is what constitues an acrued day? If an aeromed team is only on the ground, and at risk, during a quick turn round is this counted as a day or hours only? PS: To follow from KB's response. To make a distinction between air and ground would seem at odds with previous practise. How do you distinguish between a carrier based or out of country based aircraft that delivers CAS and is therefore at risk from ground fire and thoses based in country? A similar distinction existed in FI as has been mentioned. During the FRY campaign many aircrew were never in-country but they still got medals. The question also remains - what constitutes an acrued day? |
PN, correct I added ground because it seemed obvious to me, though clearly not anybody else.
Aircrew who overfly and are at no risk don't count. Mr G, I guess from other posts you are at Creech why don't you apply and let us know how far you get? People on the ground do count. IDF still a reasonable likelihood, the main base was attacked on foot a few months ago. Aeromed teams by the very nature of their work do put boots on the ground waiting for the poor sods who get hurt, though in their case this time will probably be counting towards their 1st or 2nd bar, I think. Don't the medics have the shortest t/r time on Op tours at the moment? hence 2brevets story. Footsloggers, SH crews, FP and all the others out there all deserve it, no doubt about that, boys in Creech, PJHQ etc certainly don't. |
Pongoflaps said:
Because, unlike 'the KAF "Hat Police" or... A1' you've never been in theatre. With that in mind, and having seen what the Reaper boys and girls are doing for the main effort, I think the fact they don't get gongs is disgusting. They have to decide to take life on a regular basis in self defence of our own troops, work 12hr days for 3 years on constant 24/7 operations (not 6 months about every 4 years as a Bde is currently doing). I believe that gets the personal "rigour" tick and it should be rewarded with a gong, maybe without the rosette? But hey, let's not points score, I have my opinion and you have yours :ok: By the way, it could be argued that the streets of Las Vegas are far more dangerous than in KAF - there were 131 violent deaths in Las Vegas last year!!! :} "Joke, OK?"... LJ |
Joke yes fine. But poorly judged given your audience - I would consider removing that last bit in the interest of good taste :=
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Errrr...why? To my knowledge there have been no UK servicemen killed inside the wire in KAF, so just who would be upset by the "tongue in cheek" comment about the streets of LV?
All except yourself, maybe? Maybe you need your banter chip re-wiring? :ugh: |
Talk Reaction
Banter Mode On Yeah, toughen up, buttercup! Banter Mode Off |
Here we go for an illustration:
Predator Pilots Suffering War Stress August 08, 2008 Associated Press MARCH AIR RESERVE BASE, Calif. - The Air National Guardsmen who operate Predator drones over Iraq via remote control, launching deadly missile attacks from the safety of Southern California 7,000 miles away, are suffering some of the same psychological stresses as their comrades on the battlefield. Working in air-conditioned trailers, Predator pilots observe the field of battle through a bank of video screens and kill enemy fighters with a few computer keystrokes. Then, after their shifts are over, they get to drive home and sleep in their own beds. But that whiplash transition is taking a toll on some of them mentally, and so is the way the unmanned aircraft's cameras enable them to see people getting killed in high-resolution detail, some officers say. In a fighter jet, "when you come in at 500-600 mph, drop a 500-pound bomb and then fly away, you don't see what happens," said Col. Albert K. Aimar, who is commander of the 163rd Reconnaissance Wing here and has a bachelor's degree in psychology. But when a Predator fires a missile, "you watch it all the way to impact, and I mean it's very vivid, it's right there and personal. So it does stay in people's minds for a long time." He said the stresses are "causing some family issues, some relationship issues." He and other Predator officers would not elaborate. But the 163rd has called in a full-time chaplain and enlisted the services of psychologists and psychiatrists to help ease the mental strain on these remote-control warriors, Aimar said. Similarly, chaplains have been brought in at Predator bases in Texas, Arizona and Nevada. In interviews with five of the dozens of pilots and sensor operators at the various bases, none said they had been particularly troubled by their mission, but they acknowledged it comes with unique challenges, and sometimes makes for a strange existence. "It's bizarre, I guess," said Lt. Col. Michael Lenahan, a Predator pilot and operations director for the 196th Reconnaissance Squadron here. "It is quite different, going from potentially shooting a missile, then going to your kid's soccer game." Among the stresses cited by the operators and their commanders: the exhaustion that comes with the shift work of this 24-7 assignment; the classified nature of the job that demands silence at the breakfast table; and the images transmitted via video. A Predator's cameras are powerful enough to allow an operator to distinguish between a man and a woman, and between different weapons on the ground. While the resolution is generally not high enough to make out faces, it is sharp, commanders say. Often, the military also directs Predators to linger over a target after an attack so that the damage can be assessed. "You do stick around and see the aftermath of what you did, and that does personalize the fight," said Col. Chris Chambliss, commander of the active-duty 432nd Wing at Creech Air Force Base, Nev. "You have a pretty good optical picture of the individuals on the ground. The images can be pretty graphic, pretty vivid, and those are the things we try to offset. We know that some folks have, in some cases, problems." Chambliss said his experience flying F-16 fighter jets on bombing runs in Iraq during the 1990s prepared him for his current job as a Predator pilot. But Chambliss and several other wing leaders said they were concerned about the sensor operators, who sit next to pilots in the ground control station. Often, the sensor operators are on their first assignment and just 18 or 19 years old, officers said. While the pilot actually fires the missile, the sensor operator uses laser instruments to guide it all the way to its target. On four or five occasions, sensor operators have sought out a chaplain or supervisor after an attack, Chambliss said. He emphasized that the number of such cases is very small compared to the number of people involved in Predator operations. Col. Rodney Horn, vice commander of the 147th Reconnaissance Wing at Ellington Field Joint Reserve Base near Houston, said his unit went out of it way to impress upon sensor operators the sometimes lethal nature of the job. "No one's walking into it blind," he said. Master Sgt. Keith LeQuire, a 48-year-old sensor operator here, said the 163rd asks prospective sensor operators whether they are prepared for the deadly serious mission. "No one's been naive enough to come in to interview but not know about that aspect of the job," he said. Unlike Soldiers living together in the war zone, the Predator operators do not have the close locker-room-style camaraderie that allows buddies to talk about the day's events and blow off steam. But many Predator operators at Creech employ a decompression ritual during the long ride home, said Air Force Lt. Col. Robert P. Herz. "They're putting a missile down somebody's chimney and taking out bad guys, and the next thing they're taking their wife out to dinner, their kids to school," said Herz, a Ph.D. who interviewed pilots and sensor operators for a doctoral dissertation on human error in Predator accidents. "A lot of them have told me, `I'm glad I've got the hour drive.' It gives them that whole amount of time to leave it behind," Herz said. "They get in their bus or car and they go into a zone - they say, `For the next hour I'm decompressing, I'm getting re-engaged into what it's like to be a civilian.'" Col. Gregg Davies, commander of the 214th Reconnaissance Group in Tucson, Ariz., said he knows of no member of his team who has experienced any trauma from launching a Predator attack. Himself a Predator pilot, Davies said he has found the work rewarding. The Arizona Air National Guard unit flies Predators in both the Iraq and Afghanistan war zones. It has often provided protection for American convoys, and its personnel have seen insurgents planting roadside bombs. "If we can have an effect there where we can take people out, that's a real plus in terms of saving American lives," Davies said. "Our folks look at it as they're in the fight, they're saving lives. They don't feel too bad about that." |
Anyone know the answer to who lands / takes off the UAV's (or whatever they're called this week)? I thought they were taken off locally and then handed over to FOB Creech? :ok:
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Terminal ops done locally; i believe it's because the LOS datalink has less lag than the sat link making the thing "easier" to control at the critical stages of flight.
As for gongs for the operators, some of the operators are potentially dealing with the taking of human lives on an unpleasantly regular basis. They are intrinsically and directly involved in the "Campaign" and as such should qualify for suitable recognition. |
Yes, the Nevada Drone Drivers certainly should receive formal recognition for their operational activity and be suitably awarded.
Their contibution being substantially greater than that of the sunbathing Cyprus tool-screechers of GW1....:\ |
If your little pink body is endangered for the war effort (for the qualifying period) then you should get the campaign medal. SUch risks including but not limited to:
Enemy contact - yes. Getting mortared inside the wire - yes. Your aircraft being shot down - yes. Your aircraft crashing on ops because it should be in the RAF Museum - yes. etc. Slipping on a puddle as you walk up to the pool bar for another mojito after a day playing with your joystick in a darkened room 12000 miles from theatre - er, maybe not. Seriously, would you feel much self respect wearing that medal next to a Chinook mate who gets hosed with lead, RPGs and worse every time he goes flying? Really? |
Is it just purely a question of cost? Or a lack of understanding of what they do? Or could it be solved by having a medal with an outside the wire operational clasp?
Or am I just being too simplistic...?! :} |
The object of giving medals, stars and ribbons is to give pride and pleasure to those who have deserved them. At the same time a distinction is something which everybody does not possess. If all have it, it is of less value. There must, therefore, be heart-burnings and disappointments on the borderline. A medal glitters, but it also casts a shadow. The task of drawing up regulations for such awards is one which does not admit of a perfect solution. It is not possible to satisfy everybody without running the risk of satisfying nobody. All that is possible is to give the greatest satisfaction to the greatest number and to hurt the feelings of the fewest. Which leads to the following from JSP 761: 0803. The decision to institute a new United Kingdom award – a separate campaign medal or the OSM – does not depend on any formal declaration of hostilities but is based largely upon evidence of the degree of danger to life and limb and the rigours of terrain, climate, etc... The main factors that should be considered in the overall criteria for a proposal in any particular operational situation are: a. The risk and danger to life.
b. The style and force of the enemy, adversary or opponent. c. The physical and mental stress and rigours that had to be experienced by individuals; and, indeed, the numbers of individuals and/or units involved or committed to the operation. d. The extent to which climate, weather and terrain factors affected the operational situation. e. The restrictions, limitations and difficulty in implementing the operation. f. The time (stated in number of days) and the number of air sorties (which may have a limit on how many on any one day) that should count towards eligibility. g. The geographical boundaries within which eligibility will count (this does not have to accord with the officially defined operational area). |
While I have huge respect for the people on 39Sqn who are doing a great job (indeed I've watched their kit being used a lot recently) , I think they should not receive the medal.
Medals always result in dissapointment for some people, there will always be someone who did 29 days, or 44 partials. Unfortunately a line has to be drawn somewhere. Similarly I strongly believe that the award of medals should be limited to those who enter theatre. If not, then we open a pandoras box of 'my job deserves me a medal' claims, because if someone in 39 Sqn qualifies for it, why doesnt the groundcrew servicing the 216 or 99 Sqn airframes qualify for it? After all, they are working on kit used daily in theatre, and without their contributions peoples lives would be on the line - particularly aeromed cases. We could come up with a long list of people who individually make a huge personal effort to support the front line, but who do not qualify for recognition at present. If we did alter the criteria, then half the forces would probably qualify for the OSM. I think it is easier to leave recognition for the 'campaign gong' to those who have spent time on the ground. However, serious consideration should be given to establishing an 'Operational Support Medal', which has a much longer qualifying time (say 6 months) for those individuals drafted to posts which require a prolonged and significant commitment to Ops (and noting the wider impact on themselves and their families) but which does not put them in the same level of risk and general theatre conditions. |
How about this for madness:
Some 47Sqn Herc mates did not qualify for GW1 medal as they were not in theatre for long enough (backwards and forwards to pick up men in black and dropping into TLZs didn't hit the qualification) - the school-teachers in Akrotiri did qualify! :ugh: The aircrew on Op DENY FLIGHT flying over Former Republic Yugoslavia (FRY) in the early days were only doing 60 days each of the 4 month Sqn det - no UNPROFOR gong. The groundcrew were doing over 90 days (in support but not over FRY) and get UNPROFOR gongs. Nuts! :ugh: The world will need to wake up to UAV/UAS/RPA/RPAS operators/aircrew getting recognition for their work at some point. After all the people on 39 certainly hit the criteria at Para C "The physical and mental stress and rigours that had to be experienced by individuals; and, indeed, the numbers of individuals and/or units involved or committed to the operation." - taking life is a stressful and significant combat decision, even when decompressing with a Mojito afterwards around the pool (which I very much doubt they do all the time; Vegas gets on my tits after about 2 weeks on Red Flag!) The B Word |
Following a review, those who have served for an aggregate period of 45 days will also now be eligible. Well, it is an 'operational thatre', isn't it....:\? |
Lot's of personal rigour in the Goose, Lot, Queen Vic and worst of all the Chard Bar (don't bend down!).
:ok: |
Driving onto camp and seeing the Ensign at half mast each week, listening to the C17 landing, watching Sky TV as another set of brave young folk take their last ever drive through Wotty B I am quite content that even though I qualify for this one I have never asked for and never will ask for any medal.
The day I think I have earned one maybe I will but until then I am content that those who really do deserve get theirs whilst those who don't don't. |
The world will need to wake up to UAV/UAS/RPA/RPAS operators/aircrew getting recognition for their work at some point
And why not, as should all the SSN crews who did such valiant work on sneaky patrols over so many years. At least the SSBN crews are soon to be recognised by the award of the Royal Navy Deterrent Patrol Pin, with the first awards being made at Faslane on 10 Oct 10.:ok: Jack |
Fair one about the Reaper crews, Leon, but why do you have to take a swipe at the residents of Slipper City - did a nasty man shout at you there?
I think BSN has had rather less IDF than KAF has. It's only because Allah (the preferred Taliban guidance system) is such a lousy shot that no British Service people have been killed within the wire at KAF. Employees of British contractors have been, and so have Service people of other nationalities. And there's plenty of time yet, so let's just keep our fingers crossed. |
How about this as a cunning alternative?
Go to theatre, do your job (whatever that may be and whatever risks that involves), return home : no medal. Do something above and beyond the call: medal Why on earth should medals be given for simply doing your duty? Why on earth should time in theatre be considered worthy of a medal? If you really need a piece of ribbon to differentiate between you and some blunty from basingstoke then you really need help. As for suggesting that crews who sit 8000 miles from the conflict getting medals - good grief! I would be ashamed to even be considered for one if in that position let alone wear one! |
Originally Posted by Union Jack
(Post 5853733)
[B]the SSBN crews are soon to be recognised by the award of the Royal Navy Deterrent Patrol Pin, with the first awards being made at Faslane on 10 Oct 10.:ok:
What about the MBF and LBF that held both strategic and tactical deterrent for many years? Regularly brought cockpit readiness or higher? Then there have been frequent calls for a BAOR or RAFG medal given the rigours of an arduous overseas tour. |
Flap62: That's not cunning, that's crass.
You're going to go and tell all the old boys on Armistice Day to give back their Defence Medals, War Medals, 39-45 Stars, GSMs, Falklands Medals etc, etc, are you? The precedent's set, matey. Deal with it. |
Not crass, just trying to resist the charge to get as many medals as we can. Remember when we used to laugh at our colonial cousins for row upon row of medals for 1000hrs in the BX? We're not far behind them. And it's hardly fair to compare a 39-45 medal with one earned for 30 days in starbucks.
At the end of the day the job is done for pride and professional reward - if it comes down to "why didn't I get my medal" then you really have lost the plot. Perhaps you can change my mind? Can you please tell me why someone who spends 30 days in any theatre doing the job they signed up to do is deserving of a medal? Answers such as "it's always been that way" will not be accepted. |
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