Ascent recruiting King Air aircrew
 

http://www.ascentflighttraining.com/careers/view/23/

A company called Ascent are recruiting King Air aircrew to operate out of Culdrose on rear crew training.

Does anyone know anything about this? who will they be training - is it just navs or wsops as well? It asks for multi engine mil experience- ex RAF then and so no hours builders then? What's the salary going to be?

WDD

Form an orderly queue to deepest, darkest Cornwall if you have all those essential qualifications and are prepared to be employed for an unknown salary with unknown Ts&Cs.....

Might suit a few Cornwall-based ex-Jetstream pilots who also have an ATPL with current IR, perhaps.

Both of them....:uhoh:

But after they move on?

As has always been the question put to the MFTS people, "Where will you get your QFIs from in 10 years time?"

The company called Ascent is the Joint Venture company between Lockheed and VT contracted by the MoD to deliver all military flying training (MFTS) under a PFI. They will in due course be contracting all the various elements that constitute such training, of which the joint service multi-engine front and rear crew (at Culdrose) is just one (major) contract.

Cheers
:ugh::)

These are not QFI's ....they are just looking for Pilots to fly the King Air....

They will get them from 750 NAS

BEags is right. Will Ascent not have a problem here in a few years' time? i.e. "Lt Bloggs leaves after 16 yrs, swaps his Culdrose RN pass for a Culdrose civvy pass, comes back to the same job the following Monday flying King Air but for £10,000pa less than last weeks salary (he's now got his £1000 per month pension to bridge the gap) and calls himself Mr Bloggs. Kids are in a local school, Mrs Bloggs has a steady job, mortgage is virtually paid off" - smashing.

When Bloggs doesn't want the job with Ascent, however, the job ad reads something like this, does it not?: "Wanted: Twin Turboprop qualified pilot with xxx hrs etc., in far-flung part of the country, in a base miles from anywhere, where a 1-bed pit sets you back £350,000. Pay grade is aimed at ex-military types with a pension to give them a descent quality of life - so if you've no such pension I hope you like living on baked beans and Wotsis".

Surely they're relying on a small number of ex-T2 and T3 (do they still exist?) to go civvy and stay on in same job/different uniform...

Points 1, 3 and 6 of the personal specification rules out 90% of 45(R) Sqn staff anyway........ :}

It would never happen. There are far too many pilots all clawing for far too few jobs in SW Cornwall.... Jobs on 750 NAS are like Rocking horse **** and have been for many years. Its the same with the Hawks on FRADU..... all flown by civilians and all of those jobs have a very long queue at Culdrose main gate waiting for a job to become available

Totally agree.........So don't employ pilots without any Military experience....employ ex- Military Pilots... simple. You have to bear in mind the change that 750 will undergo once the King Air comes into service. It will be very different to the Jetstream. Remember that we are only buying 4 of them....

Are many people going to be leaping for this when with that kind of experience they could be flying out of Luton etc in something that goes to glamourous places???

From Lutonairpawt.....?? YGBSM!!...:rolleyes:

Given that the advert doesn't even give any idea about salary levels and/or terms and conditions, you have to wonder who would be stupid enough to apply....

By the way, does 'ATPL' mean JAR/FCL ATPL? And what 'current IR' are they looking for - MP or SP? Or doesn't the ex-stacker running this utter shambles even know the difference?

MFTS - it'll all end in tears sooner or later. Hopefully sooner, it deserves to....:mad:

Meaning "We reserve the right to screw you about when the wonderful Cornish weather porks up the flypro."

Bolleaux. Such unscheduled flights should require considerable financial compensation.

Well, we may have to agree to disagree but only last week I was at 750 and talking to a large Civilian pilot with curly hair (you know who I mean) who told me that he had a folder full of CV's and he was in the enviable position of being able to cherry pick his team. Bearing in mind that when the Sea King disappears there will be a shed load of Cornish based pilots joining the long queue.



The interesting job Spec is that they will be acting as Aircraft Commander.... a role normally reserved for the Observer.

Vec: "The interesting job Spec is that they will be acting as Aircraft Commander.... a role normally reserved for the Observer. "

A fair comment if all QOIs were B1/A2 and there was no comms role for the plane. But back in the real world any pilot will need to be capable of taking the role of a/c cdr if the QOI is B2 (plenty of Obs do their first instructional tour on 750) and, of course, when the aircraft is used in the comms role.

Very true - Good post. Thanks for reminding me.

and we both know why and we both know what the plan is.



Notwithstanding that, I am sure that 750 NAS will not fold or disband or even struggle to operate because of a lack of pilots.

Well there you go - why would any experienced pilot relocate to Cornwall, paying relocation costs out of own pocket, resettle kids into school - and then get made redundant after a one or two year contract? The only pilots who will apply (or be interviewed and accepted) for such a job are ex 750 NAS who are already happily settled in the area and have no incentive to move on.

What excatly is your line on this then Vec, and from where are your opinions coming from? Is there there a "long queue forming" down at the Drose or are you now "sure that 750 NAS will not fold or disband or even struggle to operate because of a lack of pilots".

I'm out of the loop down there but going from an assertion of Pilots Aplenty to comments about folding a squadron seems a bit odd:hmm:

Tourist seems to paint the picture most reminiscent of my time at CU I must say.

Tlam999,

That's an interesting thought. Will the MFTS King Airs based at Culdrose actually be used in the comms role? I thought MFTS was only a training outfit.

Maybe it's more likely that, if this will be a civilian run organisation, the civilian aircraft captain will have to be the "Aircraft Commander".

OK, to place my cards on the table. Im a QOI who once worked on 750 NAS and have had a keen and vested interest the UKMFTS. Many people have slagged off the UKMFTS for no other reason other than it exchanges military jobs for civilian jobs. 750 NAS will be one of the first RN Squadrons to embrace UKMFTS.

750 NAS is currently a Naval Air Squadron, Commanded by a serviceman BUT operated by civilians. Civilian Pilots, Civilian engineers and civilian Instructors. So what is going to change ? The Aircraft will change. The Hangar is in the process of changing...the Squadron is being painted....Thats it. Nothing else will change. Other than our students will be provided with some first class training using brand new state of the art aircraft with fantastic training opportunities and that is what UKMFTS is about.

LFFC:
Quote:
...and, of course, when the aircraft is used in the comms role.
That's an interesting thought. Will the MFTS King Airs based at Culdrose actually be used in the comms role? I thought MFTS was only a training outfit.

Maybe it's more likely that, if this will be a civilian run organisation, the civilian aircraft captain will have to be the "Aircraft Commander".




I'm pretty sure that whatever it says on paper, the temptation to use shiny new King Airs as Admiral's Barges will be too strong to resist! Also, a degree of comms use will be inevitable with things such as Compassionates etc.

On your last point, I did hear that the new aircraft will be civvy maintained/owned/flown but with military registrations... whether that changes things... Naval Aviation Orders do state, however, that the QOI is to be a/c cdr in all training sorties; and I can't see that changing.

Other than our students will be provided with some first class training using brand new state of the art aircraft with fantastic training opportunities and that is what UKMFTS is about.

Oh dear vec, you are out of the loop - the only state of the art thing about MFTS will be the aircraft. From what Ive heard, a line p or n with no instructional experience could put a better training programme together than the shower at Ascent!:*

Anyway I didn't think any pilots on 750 had ATPLs so they won't get jobs? And the comms role was killed off by CDS when he killed Heron Flight!

WDD

Silly me - I forgot the MOD doesn't procure anything state of the art! The KA is a 1969 design - nearly as old as the Jetstream!:ugh:

wdd

Now that did make me laugh... Very True and very funny...:ok:

You see, where the BAES went wrong was not making a "iJetstream or Jetsream-i". It seems by just putting an "i" in the title these days and "hey presto" it's bang up to date!

Beechcraft King Air 350i Turboprop: Overview

I think it's actually QOi - it's a bang up to date QO

Qualified Looker Learner - i.e. one who instructs Observers.

In the world of Business and Finance a QOI is a Questionable Outside Investor!!! :uhoh:

Harsh, Kreuger Flap, harsh.....

















...but fair.

So isn't that a valid point in itself then? Where once there was a post for Servicemen, now there isn't.

In these times with little easing of Op Tempo in sight, what's wrong with a post that our folk can relax a little and see their families' for a tour? There is no doubt that this has already had an effect in the RAF with the numbers of posts available for QFIs being reduced (though not for the same reason).

What happens after the last generation of ex-Service instructors retire - will the through-and-through civvy instructor be able to offer the same product? We will, no doubt, find out in due course.:ugh:

By which time it'll be too late to do anything about it.....:mad:

There won't be any money to repair the damage; neither will there be sufficient people to train as QFIs by the remnants of CFS once this whole sad, sorry mess collapses in on itself.

Does Anybody know what Ascent plan to pay?

Are they expecting you to rely on your pension?

Ta.

Fatty.

Rule No. 1 is never seek employment from someone expecting you to 'top up' your Service pension with their salary!

For pilots, they will need to compete with the salary scale and Ts&Cs for a line captain with airlines such as flybe or Eastern Airlines at the very least.

If they cannot match them, WALK AWAY!!

Wise words Beags. Now if you can just get them to offer a half decent salary...

Why should they need to pay any more than (say) Cobham pay their King Air pilots?

Rubbish! Why would they be required to do that? Because the pilot job market is so competitive in the UK right now? Because pilots are so difficult to find?

By your argument, Flyby and Eastern would have to compete with BA and Virgin at the very least?

Bolleaux!

flybe and Eastern effectively define the basic market rate for twin turboprop aviation. There's no reason why some mercenary MFTS organisation should attempt to undercut that rate - or to offer lower Ts and Cs - just because they think that ex-military pilots will fall over themselves in a headlong rush to top up their pensions with a low salary.

In any case, they will have factored pilot salaries into their business model. If the civilian market picks up in a couple of years and MFTS are not offering a competitive package, they will very soon end up with no pilots at all.

Oh dear, what a pity, never mind.....:hmm:

Trouble is BEagle is that not everyone wants to strap an airliner to their backsides and go from A to B and back again 3 times a day without touching the controls! At least in the contracted mil jobs, you get to fly the a/c on a variety of different profiles with a different baby looker to beast each time.

variety is the spice of life! - its not all about salary! And I bet at Ascent, you won't have any Sh1t secondary duties!

WDD

What makes you think that ex-mil pilots should measure their worth against the salary levels of experienced airline pilots? Ex-mil pilots generally have relatively little experience that is relevant to the airline business, often a bit of an inflated opinion regarding their capabilities (standing by to be flamed, which will prove my point..), and are competing against experienced civ pilots with considerably more relevant experience of civ ops, and an established track record of putting up with endemic job insecurity, unsociable constantly changing rostas, constant bull**** from the beancounters etc.

And as WDD pointed out, there are horses for courses, and some ex-mil pilots may simply prefer to fly with Ascent within their comfort zone than go into civ flying with its own panoply of stresses and general crap.

Sorry TS - was that the Military or Civil side you were talking about there?:confused:

Without biting to your obvious hook, i think there are many in the 2 Gp empire that would beg to differ with several of your comments above...

Half a bottle speaking; seems to me that Descent would have been a more appropriate handle?