RAF Chipmunks
 

Dear fellow PPRuNe Members …

I’m trying to locate photographs of the following RAF Chipmunks during their service with No. 1 AEF at the various RAF Stations during the years mentioned … and wondered if any of you might be able to help ?

I know this might be a bit of a long shot for some of the early years. To help, in the early days, No. 1 AEF operated within a “pooled” fleet of aircraft shared with London UAS, RAF Biggin Hill Station Flight and No. 6 AEF. Typically, from the 60’s onwards, there were four resident aircraft at any one time on the No. 1 AEF dedicated fleet, so the additional serials shown reflect various inter fleet transfers made during the specified year.

The No. 1 AEF Fleet List reproduced below has been complied with the kind help of the UK author of “Chipmunk, The Poor Man’s Spitfire” (a recommended read for anyone interested in the history of the Chipmunk) along with some extensive aircrew log book research and cross-reference. That said there is some uncertainty around the final years at RAF Manston from 1988 to when the Flight ceased flying Chipmunks and closed in 1995.

I’m particularly keen to know if a final photograph was taken to mark the cessation of AEF Chipmunk flying at RAF Manston on the 31st March 1995. I seem to recall that RAF Manston had a semi-official Station Photographer who was a civilian working at the time with the Ground Radio Servicing Flight (GRSF) … a Mr Dave Keep … and wondered if anyone might know if he is still contactable these days ?

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I’m most keen to complete a potted history of No. 1 AEF during the Chipmunk years. A previous PPRuNe thread has helped with some useful information but I thought an ask outside the “History & Nostalgia” Forum might be more fruitful.

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...67-1995-a.html

RAF Biggin Hill

1958 WP 846, WK 577, WP 837, WK 621, WZ 876

RAF White Waltham

1959 WK 577, WP 837, WP 846, WD 372 WZ 876, WK 621, WK 636, WZ 850, WP 862

RAF West Malling

1960 WK 577, WP 837, WP 846, WD 372, WZ 876, WK 621

RAF White Waltham

1961 WP 837, WP 846, WD 372, WD 391

1962 WP837, WP 846, WD 372, WP 974

RAF Manston

1963 WP 837, WP 846, WZ 850, WK 621, WK577, WD 304, WD 344

1964 WK 577, WP 837, WP 846, WD 344

1965 WK 577, WP 837, WP 846, WD 344, WD 390, WK 628

1966 WK 577, WP 846, WD 344, WP 837, WK 638, WB 627

1967 WK 577, WP 837, WP 846, WD 344, WB 627, WK 586

1968 WP 846, WD 344, WB 627, WK 586, WP 837, WB 569, WK 577

1969 WK 586, WB 627, WD 370, WB 569, WP 837, WK 642, WZ 845, WP 846, WD 344

1970 WD 370, WB 627, WK 642, WZ 845, WK 586, WB 569

1971 WK 642, WD 370, WZ 845, WB 627, WK 586, WB 569

1972 WK 642, WD 370, WZ 845, WB 627, WK 586, WB 569

1973 WK 642, WZ 845, WB 627, WB 569

1974 WK 642, WZ 845, WB 569, WB 627, WG 466, WD 370, WK 586, WK 518

1975 WK 642, WZ 845, WB 569, WG 458, WK 518, WG 466

1976 WK 642, WZ 845, WB 569, WK 518, WZG 458

1977 WK 642, WZ 845, WB 569, WK 518

1978 WK 642, WZ 845, WB 569, WK 518

1979 WK 642, WZ 845, WB 569, WK 518, WG 430

1980 WK 642, WZ 845, WG 430, WB 569, WK 518

1981 WK 642, WZ 845, WG 430, WB 569,WK 518, WZ 872

1982 WK 642, WZ 845, WG 430, WB 569, WK 518

1983 WZ 845, WG 430, WB 569, WK 518, WK 642, WP 855

1984 WZ 845, WG 430, WP 855, WB 569

1985 WZ 845, WG 430, WP 855, WB 569, WK 642

1986 WZ 845, WG 430, WP 855, WB 569, WK 642, WK 554

1987 WZ 845, WG 430, WP 855, WK 554

1988 WZ 845, WG 430, WP 855, WK 554, ?

1989 WZ 845, WG 430, WP 855, WK 554, ?

1990 WZ 845, WG 430, WP 855, WK 554, ?

1991 WZ 845, WG 430, WP 855, WK 554, ?

1992 WZ 845, WG 430, WP 855, WK 554, ?

1993 WZ 845, WG 430, WP 855, WK 554, ?

1994 WZ 845, WG 430, WP 855, WK 554, WG 458, ?

1995 WZ 845, WG 430, WP 855, WK 554, ?


Kind regards …

Coff.

1AEF Manston
 

Just checking my logbook, 1 AEF closed on 31 March 1996, not 95 - same aircraft as 2 years earlier. My last Chipmunk trip was in WG 430 on the very last day! Sniff!

Wow, those tail numbers bring back some wonderful memories of the time I spent on 1AEF in the early nineties. S/L Pete Stonham RIP was the most inspiring boss I served under during my 20 years of flying for Her Majesty.

Flew most of those on a 3 month interval in my flying career, my initial training by SL Pete Stonham. All good fun.

Coff

Can't help with old pics but you might want to include a contemporary pic of WK518 which went to No 1 AEF in 1974 (from the University of London Air Squadron) and from there to the BBMF in 1983 where it's still used for tail-wheel conversion.

It's been in continuous RAF service for 58 years. (Delivered to Cranwell in 1952.)


http://www.raf.mod.uk/bbmf/rafcms/me...E1139433A4.jpg


http://www.raf.mod.uk/bbmf/rafcms/me...FDDBBA22C6.jpg


I did my first solo in WK518 in 1971.

FL

Thanks for this thread....was a staff cadet at 617GS in the early 70's and used to 'drink' with the AEF staff....Don Ding was also on the staff at 1051 Dartford Squadron...a wonderful man, believe he flew on Bostons in the war.

Thanks for replying
 

Hi Manandboy ...

I'm very interested to hear that 1 AEF closed 31/03/96 and not 31/03/95, especially as you were flying on the last day, as two separate sources in my research to date indicate 95 as the year of closure ... including a reference to when the Flight reformed at RAF St Athan (parented by UWAS) 01/04/95 flying Grob Tutors.

Many thanks ...

Hi DrumMachine, deltahotel ...

Great to hear from you both. I met S/L Pete Stonham just the once, a really nice guy, however I'm from the S/L John Shelton, S/L Paddy Brown era. You might like to have a look at the initial page I authored on Wikipedia to bring back a few more memories.

1 Air Experience Flight - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Many thanks ...

Hi Flying Lawyer ...

Thanks for the background information and pictures of WK 518. If my memory serves me correctly WK 518 was fitted with a single Bendix 360 Channel (dial up) VHF radio while, at the time, all our other aircraft were equipped with a single 12 Channel (fixed) VHF radio. When Chipmunk servicing moved to RAF Shawbury in the late 70's things became a bit tricky transit wise requiring the older VHF radios to be re-crystallised with a few NATO "common" frequencies which worked reasonably well but it wasn't an ideal solution, so every opportunity was taken to transit as a two ship formation with WK 518 as lead aircraft with the more flexible radio.

I wish we had the smart High Viz Black livery that WK 518 sports today with the BBMF !

Many thanks ...

Hi spannersatKL ...

A "Northern Grass" colleague ! Great to hear from you. I remember Don Ding very well ... I think he also flew Avro Anson's. So you'll remember Bill Williams, Bob Thompson et al ?

Many thanks ...

Best all ...

Coff.

Closure date of 1 AEF Manston
 

Coff,

Don't know where the confusion has come from, but no doubt that 1 AEF Manston closed in 96. I was in MOD at the time and started flying at Manston on 8 Aug 95. Between then and 31 Mar 96 I flew just over 35 hours. After that I moved to 10 AEF at Woodvale and converted (for the first time) to the Bulldog - flew cadets there until being posted back to a flying job in 97.

If I had to trust my failing memory I might be doubtful about the year, but the logbook dates tie in with what's left of the synapses, so I'm confident of dates.

Closure date of 1 AEF Manston
 

Hi Manandboy ...

Thanks so much for your help. Firsthand confirmation like this from your 414 locks the closure date in my book ... 31/03/96 it is !

I thought you might like to see the following pictures of WG 430 in the USA (Indianapolis) where she currently resides (or did do c. 2005). Her civil registration in the US is N430WG. Apparently, after being sold by the RAF/MOD, she moved across the "pond" and spent a short time in Canada as C-GBNM before heading further south.

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/...r/DSC01742.jpg

In this picture you will see that the Radio Frequency Card still carries the Manston frequencies !

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/...r/DSC01747.jpg

The pictures were kindly shared with me by the UK author of the fabulous book "Chipmunk - The Poor Man's Spitfire".

As you were flying on the final day ... did S/L Stonham mark the cessation of Chipmunk flying at Manston in any way ... and if so ... are there any pictures to your knowledge ? I'd really like to obtain copies if I can.

Many kind regards ...

Coff.

Coff. Held At Manston for 3 months in 1985 between FJ n ME. Pete Stonham was the boss, but Paddy Brown (F/L Reserves I think) still there limping heavily to and from ac. Pete S great boss - lots of dits about Canberras in the far east - lots of effort into the BoB museum at Manston. lot of fun.

DH

Good old '518! I did my second ever ULAS trip in WK518 from White Waltham on 4 Oct 1969; Fg Off Jerry Brown was the QFI. 'Ex 1-6; 12&13' all completed in 0:50, so it must have been a busy trip!

We were so lucky, FL - the UAS system of today is an utter travesty compared to the happy times you and I knew......:\

I trained on Chipmunks a way back and remember the neumonic I used for the start checks - sogriada.
Think the first three were switches, oil, generator - but the rest have disappeared... anyone help?

Didn't My Friend Fred Have Hairy Balls come into it somewhere.

Surprisingly happy days those 56 hours.

Mixture Fuel Flaps Harness Hoods Brakes! Flew 518' on AEF duties from Bicester (ATC/CCF Summer Camp?) 22nd July 1974. Also FIRA' on re-joining' and TTMFFPHH pre-take-off?

- "Jump, jump Johnny..."

- "Jump, jumping Sir!"


I spent many an hour sat around the side of the 1AEF building playing cards or kicking a ball about, awaiting my turn for a flight in a chippy.

I'll have to dig out my Desmond and see which of the above I flew in.

I would love a flight in one just for old times sake, I wonder if anyone out there offers them?

The Senior Service had them too, don't forget, at Britannia Flight based at Roborough. My trusty steed for my first 10 minutes of aviation freedom in Betty's club is now in Oz.

Was an instructor at EFTS when the first girl students arrived. The downwind checks had to be changed to "My Friend Fiona Has Huge Breasts" for them.

I came across the ( to me anyway as a VERY good question ) as to how come a lot of Light aircraft and indeed trials Military aircraft were painted white or grey respectively or whatever, making acquisition by the various cameras tricky at best?

The answer was that although there are thermal engineering issues for gliders and GCA, as far as mil' aircraft go no-one sees anything but a dark object in the sky, so it might as well be black.

I'm not sure how reassuring this would have been to people flying - one way or another - in the FRS/ FA2 testbed HS125 with Blue Vixen, which was painted mostly white and often had to formate on trials Sea Harriers in cloud !

"Fuel on Brakes on Throttle closed Switches off!"

I still say that occasionally when I jump into my Airbus, much to the astonishment and confusion of my First Officer :eek:

Ah those were the days....

Closure of 1 AEF Manston
 

Coff,

Nice piccies of WG 430 - brings to mind the smell of Avgas, leather and sweat that I associate with Chipmunks (all happy memories!).

I am embarrassed to say that I don't remember what happened to mark the closure of the AEF at Manston. I vaguely recall all the pilots who were there trooping out for a group photo by an aircraft after lunch, but can't rememberl who was taking the pictures - I haven't got any copies. I also seem to recall a function in the Mess, which I couldn't attend. There must be someone else around who flew at Manston - it's not that long ago!

I visited the little Battle of Britain museum at Manston a few years later and the chap who was looking after it knew Pete Stonham well - could that be another possible line of inquiry?

You'd probably have a 'trouser moment' if the starter crew replied down the external i/c with "Breech inserted, cowling secure!".

Best aptitude test in the world is an hour in a Chipmunk plus a weekend in a wet tent in Wales! Do well at that and you'll have a guaranteed aviation career - no need for trickcyclist HR dweebs to do any further assessment!

>You'd probably have a 'trouser moment' if the starter crew replied down the external i/c with "Breech inserted, cowling secure!".<

Or even "Engine primed, breech inserted, cowling secure, clear to start", which I seem to recall was the mantra on UWAS in the early 1970s.

It's often said that the Chipmunk handles very like earlier marks of Spitfire. Anyone on here lucky enough to know whether that's really the case?

"Breech inserted, cowling secure!".

yes, next time I get a pushback I must ask "flightdeck to ground, confirm doors hatches closed, breech inserted, cowling secure"

The FO would probably mumble under his breath "the silly old git has finally lost it"

Chipmunk Pilots Notes
 

Hi All ...

I thought this diagram might stir a few memories for quite a few ... especially given the reminiscences around "checks" in the last couple of replies. I have to say that this diagram comes from the 3rd Edition of the AP which was originally issued in June 1966, where I recall it was replaced in the early/mid 70's by a 4th Edition (?) ... which came in a small blue plastic ring-binder if my memory serves me correctly (which was difficult to stuff in the leg pocket of your flying suit unlike the earlier editions !) ... by which time the Carb Air setting was declared "wired hot" in the FRC's and the use of the Landing Lamp for anti-collision purposes required you to switch it on before take-off and then off after landing.


http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/...ter/AP4308.jpg

Kind regards ...

Coff.

Helpfull stacker
 

If you are ever coming up to Scotland, PM me and I will give you a flight in our trusty WP860, currently based at RAF Kirknewton.
She is ex Turnhouse ATC:ok:

1 AEF Chipmunk Pictures
 

Hi All ...

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread so far, along with the PM's and other information provided ... all very much appreciated.

Here is a picture of our WB627 in the Grey & Dayglow livery of the late 60's. Permission to upload this image has been kindly granted by the son of the pilot (Alpha 33 - F/L Bill Downing ... now sadly deceased) upfront.

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/...rter/WB627.jpg

The following picture shows a Let Down over Pegwell Bay, following an aerobatics session, for a rejoin over Richborough Power Station Cooling Towers.

Aerobatics at RAF Manston were either performed "overhead above three" (overhead the airfield to the north of the main runway) or at "Pegwell above three".

Again permission to upload this image has been kindly granted by the son of Alpha 33. At a guess this picture is mid to late 70's as Hoverlloyd packed up operations at Pegwell Bay at the turn of the 80's.

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/.../pegwell01.jpg

Kind regards...

Coff.

I recall it was replaced in the early/mid 70's by a 4th Edition (?) ... which came in a small blue plastic ring-binder if my memory serves me correctly (which was difficult to stuff in the leg pocket of your flying suit unlike the earlier editions !) ... by which time the Carb Air setting was declared "wired hot"


"Carb Air" was certainly Wire-locked 'Hot' by end 1969. Anybody know what actually precipitated this?
(one presumes to make it "idiot proof" against carb-air icing, but was there an actual incident?)

My memory is that Cranwell Chipmunks were "carb air wired hot" in 1963.

Ah... the nostalgia. That little seductress got me started on 50 years in aviation after the first flight:)

Bob C

CoffmanStarter.....Checks before landing
 

I was learning to fly the Chippie at Halton in the '90s. What a fantastic aircraft! However, it did have the odd 'quirk; namely the setting of the Brakes which I think must have been the most complicated system ever designed. Having 'set' the brakes by pulling on '5 clicks' on the handbrake you could achieve 'differential braking ' for taxiing. But if you were landing on a hard surface only, you had to pull on the '5 clicks' prior to landing in order to maintain directional control on the runway.

I remember going downwind at Benson on a sunny Sunday afternoon voicing the Pre-Landing checks and included 'Brakes - 5 clicks' . My instructor said 'Have you applied the handbrake?' I said 'Yes but only 5 clicks'. He said 'you don't need that'. I said 'My very experienced mate says that if I don't add 5 clicks we could lose control on landing'. Anyway I left the '5 clicks' on and it was lucky I had as the runway lights loomed large at one point in the procedure and I stuck in a 'bootfull' of rudder and avoided going off the side of the runway. :} My instructor said He'd never heard of it for landing. Anyone know any different?

Five clicks is excessive. You should prior to taxying apply full rudder and count how mant clicks were needed to feel some pressure on the handle as the cyliner pressurized. Normally two but sometimes three. Any more and maintenace was required.

The RAF FOM and Checklist mentioned use brakes as required, but in practice we never did. The risk of a groundloop after an enthusiastic application of rudder was too high.

We were taught the pre-taxying 'full rudder and count the clicks' technique and the option of setting 'min diff' brakes in flight if there was a crosswind was mentioned. But I don't recall ever having set the brakes anything other than fully OFF during the pre-landing checks.

The 'wired hot' thing was, if I recall correctly, something to do with the Avgas octane grade and cylinder head material used in later (?) years and was needed to reduce the CHT. But a few QFIs mentioned that the wire restraint was really quite flimsy....:E

Who's Who ?
 

Hi fellow PPRuNe members ...

A bit of an absence since my last post on this thread ... but happily I've come across a few pictures that I thought might be of interest ... perhaps some of you might own up to being "snapped" !

The following three pictures have been kindly shared by Dave Croucher.

Boss Pete Stonham (RIP) in the boot and Dave Croucher up front (taken in the early/mid 90's I think) .

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/...n101700002.jpg

Possibly one of a number of group photos taken before the Flight finally closed in 1996 ... but I don't believe this was the final photo ? A couple of faces I recognise ... Dave Croucher in the centre with the "extreme" operational SD Cap ... and far right Ted Gridler (RIP - Ex Reds).

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/...n101700007.jpg

Happy group shot ... probably taken around the early/mid 90's ... Dave Croucher sitting ... does anyone else recognise faces ?

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/...n101700003.jpg

And finally ... after clearing out the loft ! ... yours truly up front with Boss John Shelton (RIP) in the boot (he was fiercely proud of his Cambridge UAS "Blue" Bone Dome). Taken 4th August 1977. WK518 (prior to her transfer to the BoBMF) ... Spin Check ... 6 left, 6 right ... PFL ... tea and debrief ... great fun a very long time ago.

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/...n101640001.jpg

Kind regards ...

Coff.

@ acw 599
 

I'm too young to be able to compare any Spitfires with the Chippy, but remember with pleasure doing AFS at Tarrant Rushton in the early '50s and finding that the Vampire 3 (I think - perhaps 5) handled just like a Chipmunk, with that extra "something" that made life fun for a wet-behind-the-ears junior flyboy ... So young to have TWO loves at first flight in one's life !
:8

South African Prop and Jet Safari

The last time I was over there it was R500 (£45-38) for a trip in a Chippy!

>finding that the Vampire 3 (I think - perhaps 5) handled just like a Chipmunk, with that extra "something" that made life fun for a wet-behind-the-ears junior flyboy ... So young to have TWO loves at first flight in one's life !<

Aaaah...de Havilland (sigh).

Is it me or is the resemblance of the Chipmunk's fin shape to that of the Mosquito more than a coincidence?

...or the twin engined Chipmunk; otherwise known as the Hornet.

#36/#37 - I think we have been here before, about a year ago!

>I think we have been here before, about a year ago!<

My bad. Call it a senior moment. Or, if we're being kind, an "intellectual interlude".

Love it
 

The highlight of many (including me) an ATC cadet's year, those precious minutes spent over Church Fenton, Finningly, or indeed Linton.
Happy happy memories.The briefing video, the fitting of the parachute, the wait, the waddle out to the aeroplane itself, the smell, oh God the smell is there a more evocotive sense than smell ?,thechit chat witha real pilot, then the time spent doing basic aerobatics, making sure one didn't succumb to motion sickness, and trying oh trying to fly by looking at withe wingtips rather than chasing the artificial horizon.
Land, climb out, waddle back across to the office and get the parachute off, then regale all assembled with tales of daring do !

Loved it then, would love it now.