BBadanov,

Good notes on the B.20 and 21. Have to agree with you on the strange decision not to change the numbering when GAF made the uprated batch, but I suppose it all adds to the enjoyable confusion that is the international Canberra :)

I am in touch with a former 2 Sqn nav over at the Canberra Crazy - Login forum who has some cracking war stories from Vietnam. Just as with the Argentines and Rhodesians, I have a lot of respect for the Aussies and their usage of the Can. As you point out, another country that only flew with two crew. Seems that despite the 'book' seeing the need for three crew initially, Petter had it right from the start with his original B.1 design that it could be done with pilot and nav only. Very interesting about Sky Dump (Skyspot) and blind bombing, and of course your RAAF stats on accuracy and minimal losses compared to B-57 crews are worth noting. That said, I am not making a truly fair comparison considering the USAF role for the Can was more of an interdictor-bomber, and in no way meant as a sleight on the American crews who were bloody brave and professional too.

Yes - the RAAF Canberra only operated in SVN, and not "up north", or supposedly in Cambodia or Laos, where a lot of the B-57 work was done. RAAF missions I would estimate to be about 20% skyspot, and 80% level visual bombing under FAC control, over the years 1967-71.

They were embedded in the 35th TFW at Phan Rang as there were 2 ANG B-57 units there - I think 8 TBS and 13 TBS (or was that TFS?) - but these were replaced by F-100s by 1969. The US crews were great - but operated in hotter places and in a very demanding dive bomb role.

Roger that, I have heard some amazing stories about the cooperation between FACs and Callsign Magpie, really good team work and results. You should pick up the new Osprey book entitled 'B-57 Canberra Units of the Vietnam War' by T.E. Bell. Aside from telling the US story (a damn good read), there is a chapter on 2 Sqn and some really nice profile art for B-57s and B.20s.

Ok, thx for the heads-up. :ok:

I guess Lightning Mate isn't following this thread or he may have had something to say about that statement ;)

From my course at Valley (22 Gnat) there were postings to Lightning, Canberra strike and PR (and me to strike Canberra course then 360) and V Force. Don't think anyone got Hunters

Pure nostalgia! Final flypast of an RNZAF B12 prior to sale to India.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e3...Farewell-1.jpg

Canberra B20
 

BBadonov

On 45 Sqn at Tengah 1962-4, I thought we had a rather guarded relationship with the Canberras at Butterworth (2? Sqn RAAF). They seemed a bit grumpy and their mess was a bit dull. We never seemed to operate together as we did with the RNZAF B12s on their regular deployments into theatre.

I have a clear (if unreliable) memory that, while the Aussie aircraft had the engines of the B6 type, very importantly they lacked the stronger wing that we assumed was essential for low-level work. The integral wing fuel will have taken some of the load, of course.

Fairly soon after I arrived on 45 Sqn, before we swapped our B2s for the B6 type (actually B15s), we lost a lovely crew when its aircraft broke up while bombing on China Rock. So there was a sense that the Aussies were unnecessarily inviting bad luck by persisting with the old and weaker airframe. I have always assumed that a weaker airframe would have cramped their style when they were later deployed to Vietnam.

Perhaps the Aussies operated rather staidly to compensate. That would fully explain why brash young chaps like me were a bit sniffy of of them and why (if true) the B20 fleet, in peace and conflict, maintained a better loss rate than the RAF and USAF Canberra forces.

Very interesting indeed. I can't say with any certainty that the older wing was the reason behind a more conservative approach to ops in Vietnam. What I do know is that the Aussie crews were fitted with optical bomb sights which their USAF counterparts in the B-57 did not have, hence they were able to visually bomb from straight flight and low level rather than dive-bomb. I have been told that in some of these sorties they received shrapnel damage from their own bomb runs, so pretty low. Nevertheless, yes, they would most likely avoided low-level, high-G strike action like the B.15/16 were intended to fulfill. I will happily be corrected if this was also part of the RAAF Canberra role.

Whatever the case, the Canberra wing fatigue was certainly an issue for the Rhodesian Air Force, and stress was a considerably limiting factor for them. Nevertheless, when you consider they were operating essentially unmodified B.2s under sanctions and a handful of original spares, their technicians worked miracles to keep as many flying for as long and under combat conditions for so long. While not the only non-RAF operators to modify and adapt their Cans for local demands, I think the RhAF were pretty amazing in what they achieved in making the Canberra a viable COIN bomber.

I am assuming that the Argentine and Ethiopian B.62 and 52 had strengthened wings for their underwing payloads, despite still being based on the B.2 engine series.

Never forget seeing the crack in the spar in the undercarriage bay of a T4 at Watton

RhAF Canberras (and Hunters, Vampires and Alouettes)
 

There are a few short video snippets showing RhAF Canberras in this starting from about 4m30s in (although there are more pics of Hunters etc)

Lucky escape!
 

This has probably done the rounds before but perhaps worth telling on a thread about the Canberra.

Whilst serving at Bassingbourn during the early 60's, as a cpl tech, I recall an incident (which later appeared in 'Air Clues') regarding a train of events that could have been disastrous.
A student crew were on a night sortie at 20,000ft or so when the pilot called up the nav for a routine oxygen check. In spite of several attempts he couldn't make contact so, believing the nav may be suffering from anoxia he put the a/c into a spiral dive. The nav, upon seeing the altimeter unwinding at great speed tried to contact the pilot, to no avail. Believing the pilot may be suffering from anoxia he unstrapped and went forward to find the pilot hunched over the controls (apparently he was peering closely at the panel). The nav, convinced the pilot had passed out and that they were out of control attempted to pull back the stick. At this, the pilot looked up and decided that although the nav. had come round he was still suffering from the effects of anoxia. After a bit of a tussle over the controls the pilot took the hydraulic emergency pump handle and hit the nav on the head telling him to 'go back to his seat' or some such words! It transpired that the intercom had failed and they eventually made a safe landing.
The result of this incident was a mod consisting of two dolls eyes for each crew member indicating that his, and the other crew member's oxygen was flowing.
As 'Wing Commander Spry' commented 'a good story to tell in the bar but also a good illustration of how things can quickly go wrong.'

Hi Goudie,

indeed a fascinating story, and yes, really illustrates how things can 'spiral' out of control. Lucky it ended well and the mod came out of it. Do you (or anyone else) happen to remember where and when this incident happened? If not no probs, as it is your recollection from the time, and I'd like to include it in the book. If you are ok with this, could you PM me your details for crediting?

I am sure there are a lot of good anecdotes buried in threads on this forum, so if you come across any you think of note, please do post a link on here and I will track down the authors.

t43562 Love that vid, great to see the RhAF fleet there, and of course the B.2 coming in there...nice crosswind gust at just before touch down at 4:36. I know this is a Canberra thread, but would you look at that glorious Hunter at 4:56. I see a lot of glossy paintwork here and roundels too, which shows this is still before the height of the 'Strela' era when these disappeared. Great vid.

Goudie

I have also heard that story and from what I can recall your account is accurate.

I have also "tussled" with a pilot but for a different reason. We were down to fly a "LoPro" (Low Level Probe), a particularly useless "war" mission. The concept was to formate below an MRR aircraft (a Vulcan in this case (27 Sqn?)) flying at high level 35K+ and when they wanted an id on a surface contact, they would point us in the right direction and launch us at about 40nm. We would start a stop watch for ranging and descend at max rate, which for a Canberra, with ABs, was about 8-10k a minute. There was a nav (the funniest man I ever met) in the back and I acted as the observer looking for the contact in the front next to the pilot (I was small enough to be able to stand next to him).

The pilot, who was on his first flight after just coming out of hospital following an operation on his sinuses, collapsed in agony at 12,000ft. As a very junior nav (3rd month into my first tour) this was a big shock as we were about 1.5 minutes to stumpfing in. After the "tussle", the pilot came round and we slowly climbed back up until the pain eased. The sortie was called off and we made a very very slow descent into St Mawgan.

Yes, I know. What lunatic would put himself on such a profile after such an op. But hindsight is a wonderful thing.

The funny nav? - I'll give you a clue. He once flew on 7 Sqn, on 7/7/1977 with Air Cdre Dick de Severne (who I think was some wheel in 18Grp) as his pilot. After his last 1369, I asked him what the boss said (knowing he had done b***r all for his last year in the RAF). "Very complimentary " he said, "he's made me his sexual advisor". "Really" I remarked, quite astounded (and niaively). "Yes",he replied, "He distinctly told me - when I want your f***ing advice S****, I shall ask for it".

Sounds rather frightening there, I cannot imagine tussling with anyone in the confines of a Canberra cockpit would ever be easy, let alone with my life in danger and the a/c in a descent. One question about the LoPro sortie you were flying - if I have followed it correctly the Vulcan was looking to pick you up on its radar, or by visual contact? You said you were acting as observer looking for the contact but why was this necessary if the purpose was for them to pick you up on radar? Bear with me here, I know I may well have missed something but am curious.

nazca_steve

I don't wish to derail this excellent discussion on the Canberra but I presume you are aware of the book on the Rhodesian Airforce?

"Winds of Destruction: The Autobiography of a Rhodesian Combat Pilot" by P. J. H. Petter-Bowyer.

Again please don't let this hijack this thread.
John

I'm sure a SME will be along shortly, Steve, but my understanding is that the MRR (Maritime Radar Reconnaissance) Vulcan, having picked-up a surface contact (ship) on radar, would dispatch the Canberra to get a visual identification.

Correct. Having done some of this boring boat-spotting stuff on 35 Sqn as our secondary role, I can confirm that the 'LoPro' involved joining with a Canberra, updating its clockwork nav kit from the Vulcan's NBS by the highly secure method of reading out the lat/long over a UHF frequency :\ before despatching the Canberra off to identify something we'd seen on radar... I think we gave him the target's range and bearing from some reference point rather than giving him lat/long over the RT though...:rolleyes:

The Canberra would descend towards the ocean, wind itself up to max chat and attempt to identify the surface contact visually. We expected that, should we ever have had to do this nonsense for real, probably all we would have heard would have been "It's a KrestaARGHHH!" as the Canberra was shot down.

'Selfpro' was much more fun and we once spent a happy few hours on a Solar Flare charging around the Mediterranean chasing Greek tankers which the nav team had selected as our target. Trouble was, we weren't deconflicted from other players and were soon on the receiving end of a snottygram from some boat person at some maritime HQ for having blundered into an area being used by a Nimrod which had been shadowing some Sovietski subski. Our DetCo back in Malta asked them why they hadn't warned us in advance and was stuffily told that their operations were 'secret'. "Tough $hit, sunshine, we'll be around for another week, so expect more of the same....CLICK!" was the response.

The late Chris Dixon voiced an opinion on the weak wings of the Rhodesian Canberras during the "Green Leader" raid:-

"Oh Sh1t, I hope the fcuking wings don't fall off"

This web site has more specific info on the problem :-

Rhodesia Aviation

Here are two items about it, firstly about the crash of R2510 :-

English Electric Canberra B2. 'R2510' of N.5 Squadron, Rhodesian Air Force.
This aircraft was returning to the Airwork hangar in April 1971 after a flight test, having undergone major maintenance with Airwork who had the contract from the RhAF for this work. Many of the Airwork employees were ex Royal Air Force with years of experience on the British jet aircraft used by the Rhodesian Air Force. This particular aircraft is reported to be ex RAF 'WJ578 of 27 Squadron RAF before being acquired by Rhodesia in 1959. I remember the shock I felt when later that year I heard that this aircraft had crashed off the end of '06' at Salisbury on the evening of 16th November 1971, both crew members were killed, Fl.Lt.A.G.Roughead (pilot) and Air Lt.G.N.Robertson (Nav). The aircraft had suffered a 'Frame 21' failure, a crack within the frame of the main wing/airframe attachment point caused by metal fatigue. This became a serious problem for the Rhodesian Air Force Canberras, many being grounded in later years.

Secondly, about a T4, R2175 :-

This aircraft was grounded in 1974 because of a cracked wing spar, a big problem with the Canberras in the Rhodesian Air Force, brought about by metal fatigue in Frame 21 within the fuselage of the Canberra, this was the main wing attachment frame. A known problem as these aircraft were early Canberras using metal alloys developed during WW2, this was resolved in later Canberras, such as those supplied to the SAAF which utilised more modern metal alloys in their construction. Flights at low level in bumpy conditions which put a great strain on the wing attachments were avoided but many 5 Squadron aircraft were grounded as time went by.

Hello John and Argonautical,

Talking about Canberras of any nation, let alone Rhodesia of which I have a good deal of interest is NEVER derailing a discussion! I could talk about this till the cows come home. W of D is an excellent read of which I finished late last year. I have since been in contact with Peter PB and also Mike Hamence, co-author of Canberra in Southern African Service, who have both been extremely helpful and in a large part inspired me to crack on with this project. Ref the wing spar problems, Mike did a massive amount of research on this, most of which is over my head, but suffice to say, the RhAF crews were brave, and the ground crews miracle-workers.

Beagle and diginagain,

thanks very much for clearing up how MRR with the Vulcan worked, there's the nitwit me thinking the Canberra itself was the contact! Won't be the first or last time I commit a proper civvie blunder like that, as always cheers for enlightening me. Beagle, PM coming your way about your 35 Sqn experiences.

Any one ever take part in the pure theater that was the 7Sqn Canberra Bombing role display at IAD St Mawgan? - Ignoring the oily explosions, the flying was excellent.

Beagle,

just wanted to make sure you got the PM I sent you after your post #58. Also, if you have any other stories like that - you've got a very entertaining way of writing and would love to hear more.

Best,

Steve

I have done the Lopro from both sides, on 27 Sqn despatching a Canberra to do the run but as stated, Selfpro was much more fun.

On 7 Sqn at St Mawgan we did the Lopro but working with a Nimrod which was a much more valuable asset then the Canberra. It was more covert with the Nimrod broadcasting blind and we formatted below it in a racetrack oriented towards the target. Once outbound the Nimrod opened his bomb doors, when he closed them we were inbound at 80 miles at which point we dropped to low-level and flew in calling contacts as we saw them. The plan was if we stopped broadcasting then they were probably hostiles!:bored:
One time I did it, as we reached the target group of fishing vessels a voice from the ether said 'don't pull up'. The Nimrod had followed us to see what we did, I raced him home from there. :O

Dear Options770,

Very interesting story there, perhaps a daft question on my part (I do ask a few of them), but what was the significance of the Nimrod opening/closing its bomb doors?

Next question, can you tell me where you were operating? Your mention of your silence equating to your demise hints at something interesting...

Who won the race by the way? ;)

We were listen only on the Nimrod frequency and they were only broadcasting positions so it was a method of launching silently without alerting the enemy!
We broadcast on a different frequency on which the Nimrod was listen only. The idea was to give us a better chance of survival if it was for real. We did the practice in the south west approaches, probably a Spanish fishing fleet.
As for the race, well I did a practice approach at St Mary's in the Scilly Isles and we were still in the bar before the Nimrod Landed :)

Brilliant stuff, Options, cheers for that. Shifting topics a bit, did anyone here have experience with target tug flying (TT.18s, B.2s) or AI training with the T.11? I would love to hear something about these tasks, especially the latter, as it seems those with T.11/19 experience are pretty rare these days.

target towing
 

nasca

I was on 100 Sqn in the early eighties and did a lot of target towing. It was dull, boring work so I am not sure I can offer much of interest! We towed air-to-air targets (banners) for the Lightning and F-4 guys (I think all of our jets had the banner attachment and release mechanism so we would have used B2and E15 for that role; sleeve targets (a bit like a windsock IIRC) behind a TT18 for the Navy 4.5 inch guns down on the South Coast and Rushton targets for the Rapier firings at Benbecula (we would be detached to Kinloss for this). As the nav, it was my job on the latter task to press a switch to deploy the target (I seem to remember it unwound to 19 to 20 thousand feet behind the Canberra), monitor the tension in the cable then press another switch to wind it back in after the firing detail. As the Canberra turned away from the firing point (with the target still heading inbound) you could usually see the Rapier in flight but that was about as interesting as it got.

We had a LOT of fun on the sqn in those days, but it was not flying related - :ok:

We did target towing with the B.20 after our bombing role ceased with withdrawal from Vietnam in 1971.

The B.20 was fitted with a lug on the underside, just aft of the camera hatch, I think it was. The target (a dayglo coloured net, "banner" we called it) was layed on the runway after we taxyed in by about 1500 ft. The banner had an aluminium "spreader bar", about 6 ft wide I think, with a couple of discs on it to acts as wheels as it was dragged along the R/W. The cable with an explosive shear bolt was then connected to the lug, and the Canberra took off in a fairly steep climb-out.

Out over the ocean, then set up in an orbit to be joined by a 4-ship of Mirages. They would call "in live" off their perch, shooting ball ammunition. Each fighter in the 4 had a colour applied to their rounds - blue, green, black, or magenta.

At "bingo" for the shooters (not for the Canberra, it could stay all day), they would regroup and go home, and we would pull the banner back home. We would line up off the edge of the runway at 1000ft to drop the banner on the grass - the nav would be down the nose and use the bomb button to fire the explosive bolt to release the banner.

The "knuckleheads" would then retrieve the banner, and take back to their squadron to count up the various colours. Simple.

It was always a jape to head back when they were counting and ask "Who was firing blue?". "Well add one more, we got a blue one through the fin". haha :E

We did these up in Butterworth (Malaysia) too, up twice a year for our squadrons there - that was known as "TUGBUT". Good fun :ok:

Hardly a demanding job, but it was better than a desk as we waited for a FJ position.

I did target towing using the TT18 on 7 Sqn at St Mawgan. We only did ground to air, so I have no experience of air to air.

We flew with a sleeve which we deployed from a canister in the air and towed against HMS Cambridge at Plymouth for Naval Gunfire training. I seem to remember the tow length was 6000ft. We had two canisters on each winch so in theory if the sleeve was damaged we could jettison and deploy another. The sleeve could not be recovered so we normally dropped it on the airfiled next to the runway for re-use. We occasionally towed for small arms anti-aircraft training on the ranges in South Wales. I did a Sunday for the TA and after 20,000 rounds of a variety of weapons we dropped the sleeve on the beach for them, it was undamaged!

We also towed the Rushton target in the Hebrides ranges for Blowpipe and Rapier Missiles, for blowpipe the tow was 3 miles and for Rapier it was 5 miles. At missile launch we were behind the launcher in a turn so there was no danger. The skill was in keeping the target level because as we turned it tended to drop, so the turn was always a climbing profile to maintain the target at 500 ft.

Evening all,

first up, thanks a lot for these seemingly mundane banner towing details. Trust me, it's not to me ;).

Generic question to all: BBadanov mentioned r/t contact with the Mirages in his post; was this a common procedure in towing and what were typical radio exchanges if so? Were corrections to flight path ever called out from the shooter or was it all down you to and what pattern you were supposed to fly? In air-to-air towing did you try to make things difficult for the shooter?

BBadanov also mentioned a 'blue' hit on the fin - did anyone else ever get more than they bargained for or was this pretty rare?

Spectre150 and Options770 could you elaborate a little on the towing you did for the Navy's guns. What kind of runs would you have to make for them, for instance what altitude and rough distance from the ship, could you see it and the shell explosions or would these have been behind you/out of line of sight?

Options770, that TA shoot sounds interesting, not something I have heard of before - what kind of speed and altitude did you make your runs at? Could you actually see the shooters? I am guessing you would have had to be have been fairly close in for small arms to have even stood a chance...although you say they were off the mark anyway!

Finally, you all probably know I am working on a book about all this; if not, the link to the main book thread is over here:

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...r-request.html

Seeing as I am light for content on towing, I'd love to be able to use your anecdotes with permission of course. If so let me know and I will send over a PM. Cheers.

BBadanov, I think I sent you a PM about your RAAF experiences (not sure, I have sent a fair few out recently). You mentioned B.20s in Vietnam - I would very much like to talk to you about that, but perhaps that is best done in the other thread or PM if you prefer. I probably would have endless questions that might not be appropriate for his exact thread.

Steve

"Generic question to all: BBadanov mentioned r/t contact with the Mirages in his post; was this a common procedure in towing and what were typical radio exchanges if so? Were corrections to flight path ever called out from the shooter or was it all down you to and what pattern you were supposed to fly? In air-to-air towing did you try to make things difficult for the shooter?

BBadanov also mentioned a 'blue' hit on the fin - did anyone else ever get more than they bargained for or was this pretty rare?"

R/T was pretty standard RSO type banter. That is, the Canberra was the RSO for the Range (it was over water, a designated danger area, but fishing boats would wander in!).

You would find a clear area and start a left hand orbit. Fighters would come on freq: "Dildo check", "2", "3", "4". "Loud and clear. Tug, Dildo on freq, 4 aircraft for live." "Dildo, Tug at BUT 270, 45 miles, 10,000ft." "Roger"

"Tug, have you visual, in dry" "Dildo, clear dry." They would set up their pattern from the perch, to get 4 aircraft in a pattern of equal spacing". Only took one rotation, then in live. Each would have to be "cleared live", and each would call "off safe".

When fueled out or fired out, all needed to check "switches safe" and RTB.

That was about it, exciting huh? :hmm:

Try to make things difficult for the shooter? You gotta be sh*tting me, right? := No, steady 30 degree level banked turn. We are talking real bullets here.

No hits on any aircraft to my knowledge, was only joking about that. Heard the supersonic rounds go by very occassionally, I guess the shooter didn't have enough angle off. I seem to remember the cable length was 1300 ft.

Re Vietnam - I have written plenty about it - will PM you with a few references, can't be bothered frankly regurgitating it all again.

Naval Runs
 

For the beginning of each course we would do 'Dry' runs using the sircraft as the target while the crews learnt and practised the procedures. This would usually take 2 days. Then we went 'Hot' flying the target straight and level at 1000' on 6000' of cable aimed directly at the gun. Shots were fired using 4 1/2 inch break up shells when the aircraft was overhead the gun so out of the firing arc. We couldn't see the shot but could hear them, and on the rare occasion there was a good hit, you felt it

I spent time on 85 Sqn 1972 - 1975. We towed banners for air to air only. The banner was a mere 900ft or so from the tug and the Canberra was known to appear in the gun camera of the Phantom and Lightning.
On 7Sqn at St Mawgan from 1977 to 1980. We towed Rushton targets some 18 to 24 thousand? feet behind the aircraft.
I don't remember a Blowpipe ever coming close to the target. Rapier was better. I once flew two sorties on a Baltic range for a German Geppard. The Rushtons were destroyed within a second or so of being acquired.
The big bombing raid that completed the Air Day was always great fun.

Surely there must be some ex-100 Sqn mates who can describe the saga of the Machrihanish escape tunnel?

Another of those typical aircrew japes of the 1980s - until the farmer's tractor tipped over.

EX PROFIT against 360's EW jets was sometimes amusing. Comms jamming could be entertaining; noise itself wasn't much fun, but someone once broadcast German 'oompah' music. When they stopped and a singularly usless GCI controller came back on the air, another F-4 piped up with "Can we have the music back, please?". One of the more effective was the rebroadcast of another PI flown earlier. But the best was when some AEO in the Canberra read out either 'Quest' or the raunchy readers' letters printed in Mayfair...:ok: Everyone stopped what they were doing and listened in!

However, too much Canberra RT transmitting once allowed me to DF a pair of Canberras whilst bumbling around an AAR towline in the mighty Vicekrs FunBus. Watching the rate of bearing movement, it was obvious that they were close, so we turned and attempted to triangulate them from the other end of the towline. We spotted them, gave chase and fired off a yellow flare, claiming a 'Fox 4' and requesting 'kill removal'.

With experience, it was obvious when the RT spoofing was coming from a Canberra; anyone who'd ever flown a Hunter could recognise the sound of an Avon engine's generators.

Shooting at the flag towed by Tatty Ton's jets during Akronelli APCs was the sport of kings though. My best score was 52% with 'lucky' red tipped bullets. But on another occasion I had a runaway gun and my entire ammo load went in one pass until the blank spacer round stopped it. The pilot of the other F-4 said that the shimmer of brass ejected by my SUU 23 was very impressive. You were supposed to reach down and turn off the Centre Station Selector if you had a runaway gun; however, by the time you realised what was happening, pointed in a safe direction and reached for the selector, the gun would invariably have fired out.

There are plenty of Akrotiri stories out there; few are printable! Such as 'Skipper' and the 'Whale'?? :E

Fun times and good banter back then.

When I did TLP at Jever in early '80s, the Germans provided a demo and hands-on of the Gepard. It looked a very impressive system. Like the 23-4, I am glad I never flew against it.

I seem to recall reading in 'Air Clues' (many moons ago, in fact it was etched on a slate methinks), an account of an incident involving a Canberra which developed an Aileron restriction in flight, following an application of bank at low level.

The aircraft was continually rolling, but by a skillful combination of pushing/pulling, the pilot was able to initiate a climb to an altitude sufficient for abandonment - I think at least one crew member had to hop out of the door with his 'chute when the green/blue orientation was at its' optimum. Anybody else recall?

HB

Beagle

Your 52% must be close to the record. We quite often came back with a clean banner after (up to) eight Lightnings.
Do remember an American exchange Officer (Binbrook 1973?) once scoring 56%, but he was the exception, not the rule.

dalek, having checked my logbook, it seems that it wasn't 52%, it was only 50.1% in XV399 on 16 Aug 1982. The runaway gun was on my second sortie that day, but in XV437. I did have a celebratory pint of G&T afterwards though, as the 50.1% shoot had completed my 'ACE' qualification. That's ACE as in Allied Commander Europe or somesuch, not 'ace'!

The 52% was actually later in the year on 17 December during a strafe sortie - again in XV399. Something which had been added to our repertoire due to OP CORPORATE. Great trip with the late Griggles in the back - off at high speed to the range as time was tight, a quick dry pass then several hot passes. From the range we flew down to the corner of East Anglia to act as a Tac Check bounce - which worked superbly as we caught the pilot being checked in the middle of a frequency change from Eastern Radar to Neatishead (which was what I'd expected). He couldn't call the threat to the rest of the formation as they were all faffing about looking up the fighter stud frequency and was exercise shot down with an AIM-9 as a result. Then back to Wattisham to land after the best 65 minutes of flying I ever had in the F-4! Particularly as I'd managed to 'shoot down' my Flt Cdr on his Tac Check - which Griggles thoroughly enjoyed!

The north coast of East Anglia was always a good hunting ground to pounce on unsuspecting Canberras. Obtain an easy kill and film it for Taceval, then have fun. Although the time I was on QRA and had a practice scramble on 9 Mar 1983 was less easy - the first target was a Canberra PR9 (some trials thing with an odd-looking nose). A PR9 flying tight turns is not an easy target for a Q-fit F-4, particularly when heavy! The task was to intercept, identify and report, then shadow. However, as the PR9 wouldn't co-operate, the task changed to 'exercise engage'..... The second target, a TT18, was a little easier though.

EX PROFIT could be interesting at night if the target was mis-id'd. Many an unsuspecting airliner became the focus of attention, particularly the 'Norwich Flyer' - AirUK's F-27 service to Norwich Airport. Ironically, once after a Leuchars JMC when my nav and I had to fly back from Edinburgh to Norwich via Leeds Bradford in the AirUK F-27, we couldn't get in to Leeds Bradford on the way due to low cloud, so had to divert to East Midlands to let out the LBA passengers. Whilst waiting for the aircraft to start up again, we noticed that the stewardesses looked rather happy, so asked why. "We'll be back after (2300?) now, so we'll get a minimum overtime payment", one of them told us. "Oh good - so that'll be 2 large gin and tonics, please", we replied. Which, all credit to her, she brought us. But we were off the normal timetable by the time we'd wandered southwards in the mighty Fokker - and found ourselves being intercepted by a pair of F-4s from our own squadron who were on a night EX PROFIT trip! We told our friendly stewardess that it was our 'welcome home' reception!

Gepard capability
 

BBadanov

In the Falklands we were up against 35mm twin Oerlikons – same gun as Gepard, different mount. I was nearly shot down twice by this system at low level and you’re right – they don’t half get your attention!

In early 1971 they wre shutting down FEAF. To this end the Marine Section was shuttling to the China Rock range with loads of ammuntion, tools etc and dumping it at sea. Then the Marine Section folded and there was a problem if getting rid of all this ammunition. A truckload of it arrived at the Squadron and we were told to fire it off from our Whirlwind 10s and dump what was left over. A Whirlwind had two GMPG mounts but but for this we only used the one at the main door and to give something to aim at we took the now redundant SAR dummy and let him sunbathe on the rock.

It took all day. We had three aircraft shuttling and every body was having a go. The crewmen, the squadron's regiment, ground crew, our clerk and all the squadron pilots. We had two spare barrels in each aircraft because after a couple of boxes the airstream on one side of the barrel causes it to bend so it has to come off to cool down.

Sighting was easy; it was 2/1 ball/tracer and you could work onto the rock using the splashes in the sea. It was a great day that used loads of HM's money and at the end the day the dummy was recovered and brought back to Changi.

There were two holes in him; one probably a ricochet.