PPRuNe Forums - The Falklands / The Malvinas

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- - The Falklands / The Malvinas - (again?) (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/405979-falklands-malvinas-again.html)

The Ocean Gaurdian is quite old and has serious limitations operating in the waters around the Falklands. It should, however, be able to update the information aquired by the Dolphin some ten or so years ago. There is still no guarantee, at this time, that serious exploration is yet viable in the area.

Last year the Argentinians walked away from an exploration sharing deal, with the UK, around the Falklands.

If Argentina comes they will not make the mistake of last time. They'll bring friends.

This story will not be a one movie hit but a long running Bond franchise if ever I saw it. We're going to be hearing about this for lots of years to come.

Your SDR better get it right 'cos at the moment you've got a bucketload of really expensive chiefs and no feckin' indians (but you'll probably just get rid of more engineers again).

Hanging on to a couple of MR2s for a few more months might not go amiss.

CosmicComet. Please talk to your government. No-one on the Falklands wants a Sullom Voe on their doorstep. The natural place for such an installation and the support for any exploration in the area would be on the Argentinian mainland. This would bring your country billions of pounds in revenue. Surely to goodness, whatever your view of who should rule in Stanley, the best way out of economical difficulties is to strike a deal! :ugh:

The most recent (2008) Argentine arms holding declaration

http://disarmament.un.org/UN_REGISTER.NSF

TJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimNich

Hanging on to a couple of MR2s for a few more months might not go amiss.

I think you will find that certain contributors to,
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...ghlight=nimrod have made that option near to impossible.

airborne_artist. Actually, we're on Improved AWD, No 4 rig now. :ok:
No 4 IAWD and No 5 Work Dress : Blue Uniforms of the Royal Navy : Uniforms and Badges of Rank : RN Life : Training and People : Royal Navy

Just been looking at the noseart on the Etendard, and it chilled me to the bone. It was like I've seen a ghost, because I was sailing through Portsmouth last week and Invincible was there. - I must have been mistaken.

Does the opposition believe there is an RN sub in the vicinity? As long as the answer is yes, there isn't a problem (1977 ... again)

I'll now read the rest of the thread.

Does the opposition know there's a bunch of P-3 and S-2T aircraft in the vicinity?

They knew it was there the first time around, and I doubt a single sub would stop any operation from going forward.

1977. There's a clue there somewhere.

I think he means BBC NEWS | UK | Secret Falklands fleet revealed

That would probably work for an invasion. For harassment of shipping, think tits on a fish.

Harassment of shipping? Do you mean piracy? Or just a bit of name calling?

As an accredited warship, demanding to see "papers" and taking in suspected "contraband runners"?

Chavez says "desperate" UK flouts law in Falklands

From the Times article

Quote:

Yesterday’s decree amounts to an Argentine move to control all traffic from South America towards the islands,

All traffic? I can't see how the Argentinians can control anything outside their territorial waters without breaking the "Law of the Sea". The problem the RN might have is that destroyers and frigates are not designed for close contact of the "prepare to ram" variety, probably need to borrow some of those Icelandic "gunboats", are they available at a knock down price at the moment?

AFN reporting Chavez:

"In Caracas Chavez, speaking on his radio and television show "Alo Presidente", called on Queen Elizabeth II to hand over the Falklands to Argentina.

"Look, England, how long are you going to be in Las Malvinas? Queen of England, I'm talking to you... The time for empires are over, haven't you noticed? Return the Malvinas to the Argentine people."

"The English are still threatening Argentina. Things have changed," Chavez continued, still addressing Queen Elizabeth II. "We are no longer in 1982. If conflict breaks out, be sure Argentina will not be alone like it was back then.".......

Ahhh...so...Argentina will not be alone like back then in 1982 says Hugo....this is great news...the U.K. should be able to kill two birds with the one stone....wonderfull....getting rid in the world of another pariah...:ok:

Dunno about killing two birds with one stone old chap, IMVHO, the presence of Flankers may give 1435 something to think about.

More than likely though that this is just empty Chavez-self propagandising for domestic consumption.

Cant seriously see him going through with it.

If he did join in, just what assets do they have. Would the USA get involved? as I am sure they would want rid of him too.

"I couldn't give a FIG"

Chavez will not expend a bullet outside his border, but fuelled by political and media interests, this flurry is going to be awkward so it is worth a closer check on the detail. For shipping, Article 1 of Argentine Decree 256/2010 states:

Quote:

To every ship or vessel intending to transit between ports located on the Argentine mainland and ports located in the Falkland Islands, South Georgia and South Sandwich, or go through Argentine waters toward the latter, and / or loading goods to be transported directly or indirectly between these ports, you must request prior authorization by the competent national authority.

Whereas, the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) Part II, Article 24 on Duties of the Coastal State requires:

Quote:

1. The Coastal State shall not hamper the innocent passage of foreign ships through the territorial sea except in accordance with this Convention. In particular, in the application of this Convention or of any laws or regulations adopted in conformity with this Convention, the coastal State shall not:

(a) impose requirements on foreign ships which have the practical effect of denying or impairing the right of innocent passage; or

(b) discriminate in form or in fact against the ships of any State or against ships carrying cargoes to, from or on behalf of any State.

However, The Danish-owned and Manx registered MV Thor Leader was banned from Argentine ports. Greek and Swedish shipping sources are quoting a vessel which was due to load in Argentina, following a call at Port Stanley, and was unable to go ahead with her intended operation as it was banned from taking bunkers in Argentine waters. It was also subjected to a thorough port state control inspection which delayed departure. They are advising their members intending to trade in this area to contact local agents or correspondents to ascertain the situation in advance.

Meanwhile, the tug Maersk Traveller and the aging Ocean Guardian semi-submersible drilling rig should be in the Northern Basin and preparing to drill this week.

Oil rig security is a civil matter with the Royal Falkland Island Police (RFIP) at the the front. So if this is not to be military business, who does Cristina Kirchner task to monitor and enforce decree 256? The Prefectura Naval Argentina (PNA) is under the Ministerio de Justicia, Seguridad y Derechos Humanos, to conduct maritime policing, port security, shipping control, navigation security, border control, fishery protection, life-saving, navigational aids maintenance, coast guard and patrol of the sea frontiers in search of smugglers. While this force has useful capabilities in the event of a conflict and it has been attached directly to the Navy a number of times during its existence, it is a civil organisation. Its aircraft are here and the PNA can call on the Agrupación Albatros.

This is first and foremost a challenge for the Falkland Island Government (FIG) and particularly the FIG Legislative Assembly who are committed islanders, many with long memories and some with active service behind them. In their latest statement, they recorded that any potential revenues from exploitation will not feature in the Islands’ economic planning unless and until commercially viable reserves are discovered. The Falklands are not an oil producer now and holds no proven reserves, so far; Stanley is not Sullom Voe. HM's representative is Alan Huckle as the Governor of the Falkland Islands and Commissioner for South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands (since 2006). He has been the Commissioner of the British Indian Ocean Territory and Commissioner of the British Antarctic Territory.

There is plenty that is unhelpful, but none of it is military posturing. Foreign Minister Jorge Taiana said Argentina “seeks to have a diplomatic, peaceful dialogue” with Great Britain, and asked for London to join in discussions regarding the Falklands/Malvinas Islands sovereignty to “finally end this anachronistic colonial situation.”

Mercopress reported "The operation which includes giving the Argentines part of the sophisticated avionics of the Super Etendard Modernized (SEM) model would take place in 2015 when the French Navy will de decommissioning their air fleet to be replaced by the new Rafale."

Labour's Quentin Davies is firmly on the fence about HMS ENDURANCE with no final decisions on whether to repair or replace it.

You could also ask UK ally Uruguay about the Argentine handling in the International Court of Justice (ICJ) concerning their Pulp Mill dispute.

This is complicated, messy, political, very public and involves lots of gestures. May I commend we sit tight and consider the saying "I couldn't give a fig" which is based on the Spanish 'fico' (fig). This gave its name to a traditional gesture of contempt made by placing the thumb between the first and second fingers. The gesture was common in Shakespeare's time and was known as The Fig of Spain. The modern-day UK equivalent used to be the "V" sign.

Just an idea,

Beg, Borrow or unusally, 'Buy' a 'PATRIOT' system or two.

Place them in careful places in the 'Ilas Mavinas' and switch to 'AUTO-ON'

Step Back, and enjoy the 'nibbles'

(PS: Ensure FIGAS have working IFF.......)

Advo

while obviously a good proportion of this is for a purely domestic audience, surely they are raising this as they also perceieve military weakness?

i'm not sure i agree with their conclusion, but perhaps sending another handful of Typhoons and a few GR4's would put the matter well and truly beyond doubt - we all know that without SHAR a second task force is going to be a nightmare, so why no move to boost the current air defences (both for military and political deterence)?

So glad we sold the Type 23's for bugger all to Chile.....

Latin America backs Argentina as Britain begins Falklands oil quest - Times Online