UJ,

an excellent defence of your fine service, but it is not the issue. Whatever the RN's record in past humanitarian operations, the facts are:

The USS Carl Vinson is already there.

It is a carrier.

It is also very capable, some may say more so.

It is unable to help very much.

Therefore, the logic of us sending another carrier is fundamentally flawed. The pygmy carrier comment was in large part frustration at the other members of your service who chose not to read any post that doesn't support the 'we need to send a carrier, now whats the question' brigade.


If I am anti-navy, it's only because I have spent so much time working with them.

UJ, an interesting rebuff to MGD, but has it occurred to you that the people who make the decisions, ie ministers of the Crown equally lack the level of training you suggest is so important in appreciating any branch of the Services. Indeed, I cannot think of any influential politician of the last 30 years who would have been capable of gaining a place on a Staff course.

UJ.....when one compares a USN Carrier Task Group and its associated Amphib Group....the RN begins to pale in size and capacity. No fault of the members of the RN but simply due to numbers of ships and aircraft deployed with them.

When one considers the USMC deployed over 2,000 Marines and the 82nd Airborne another 3500 Para's.....that alone should give an idea of the amount of help we can provide on very short notice.

As good as the RN is.....it just doesn't have the ships or aircraft to compare with the USN/USMC....and USCG combined.

How many ships from the RN are on the way to Haiti as we speak?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...candinavia.jpg

Illustrious and the car ferry King of Scandinavia in the background, too small to make much difference?

Has USS Comfort been deployed?

I think she spends most of her time in dock awaiting deployment and now seems as good a time as any. She was sent out to both Gulf Wars amoungst other jobs and has over 1000 hospital beds.

Set sail yesterday from Baltimore. USN are expecting up to a 6 month deployment according to this article.

Defense.gov News Article: Top Navy Doc Predicts Long USNS Comfort Deployment

I think it's worth pointing out that the USS Carl Vinson was to sea and able to help rapidly. There is little point in sending more carriers as what's effectively needed now is a start on rebuilding what little infrastructure they have i.e cranes at the dock so heavy equipement can be brought in.

May or may not need a Carrier (and I'm sure Carl Vinson can handle ATC issues) but they sure as hell can carry a lot of useful kit. I'm not talking about Jets here but things to help with short & medium term aid as well as the long term reconstruction. Helicopters, Engineer equipment & Plant, Hospital facilities, People, C3, accom etc etc.

From the RN point of view, a CVS may not add that much but I'd have thought that an LPD/ LPH & Argus may be of some help, even if they could not actually get there for a couple of weeks, especially if they were carrying a Cdo Logs Regt & an Engineer Regt.

Disaster relief may not be a core capability for the UKs Armed Forces but it is a damn fine secondary capability and one that the RN (and presumably the other Forces) does train & practice for. It might also be useful in this time of financial threats to demonstrate to the GBP & their PM that the military has other utility other than invading the occasional country. Might even aid our security slightly if we can demonstrate that we don't just kill people.

The Armed Forces are supposed to support the countries Foreign Policy. Nothing wrong in demonstrating that that Foreign Policy is not just an aggressive one.

Ocean, Albion, Bulwark, Mounts Lyme Cardigan and Largs Bay. All ships that really should be able to help in such a situation.

Not forgetting Argus and the Point Class RoRos.

Not sure of their disposition, but now would be a great time for the RN to deploy some of them. Ahead of defence cuts, every service is looking to perform that vital must have role. Helping victims of a disaster like this with out considerable amphib and logistics capability would not only do real good for the people who need help, but do the navy good.

Short of helos? A few 771 cabs and what about HTUFT S61s. The RN uses them a lot. What better time to do some good, save lives, make a difference and prove your worth to anti-military politicians beancounters and the British electorate.

Is there any reason to say that South American militaries have capacity they can/should be bringing to bear on this more than is being done already?

Do we still have a couple of AAC 212's in Belize - Herkable?

Few reports coming through on the situation, but I suspect Guatemala may be a bit more of a concern for the Flight at the moment.

For anyone looking to keep track of the USN

YouTube - USNavyVisualNews's Channel

tyne. You would have reasonably thought that. Alas, all the ships you mention are either in maintenance or well away from the region, doing their various day jobs. Had this disaster happened 15 years ago, the West Indies Guard Ship would have been on station and kitted out with disaster relief and internal security stores. Having the entire Atlantic covered by just 1 DD/FF doesn’t provide that flexibility.

Of course, 15 years ago, Papa Doc and the Ton Tons wouldn’t have allowed the earth to quake.

GBZ is absolutely correct of course but as a Navy guy I can't help but feel let down by my lords and masters and feel quite ashamed that with over 80 ships in the Royal Navy and with 23 RFA's it is a little strange that there isn't mention of any of them being on scene.

Whilst not wishing to steer the thread away from the fine discussion on Naval matters...

I believe the OP was hinting to the fact that there appears to be not a single UK military relief flight.

If ability to contribute to disaster relief is to be a indication of one's military capacity, then quite simply, we have nothing left in the tank. We could not, even if we wished to. It is not possible.

I simply do not buy the argument that the airfield is too congested to bother going, otherwise we may as well quit Helmland right now. BA and Qatar, amongst many others, have managed.

Incidentally, BBC are reporting that USAF have managed to carry out (C-17, I believe) airdrop. 14,000 meals and 15,000 litres of water.

BBC News - US begins airdrops of food and water into Haiti

Well done the USAF....... So, there is no RN presence...No RAF... Are the Army involved at all ...?

Yet another good reason for maintaining RNR/TA/RAuxAF manning. The civilian skillsets combined with military flexibility mean that HMG could send medics (if they were not all in Afg), civil/electrical power/water engineers, loggies, vehicle/plant engineers, ATC/airfield ops, the whole nine yards.

But Gordon sold the gold for nowt, bet the farm on a never-ending economic miracle, so now we can't afford to train/pay all those good people who'd be out there by now making a difference.

RFA Largs Bay on the way
 

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Defence Breaking News

The UK will send Royal Fleet Auxiliary supply ship, RFA Largs Bay, loaded with aid to help with the relief operation in Haiti, International Development Secretary Douglas Alexander has announced today.
More information will be available on the MOD website at www.mod.uk shortly.

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Take it, it has an Merlin on board

According to the PM at PMQ's,

'we are providing a boat, er, erm, RAF Largs Bay'

What a clown.