Haiti - a sign?
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Haiti - a sign?
As i'm sure you all have, i've just been watching a little news coverage from the Haiti relief efforts.
Whilst i was heartened to see the levels of support from most nations - especially the Qataris' use of their C17s as they said they would - it also struck me that not a single UK military asset is there yet, at least visibly.
Is this a very public sign of the true state of 'stretch' of our AT fleet? It would, sadly, appear so.
Uncle G
Whilst i was heartened to see the levels of support from most nations - especially the Qataris' use of their C17s as they said they would - it also struck me that not a single UK military asset is there yet, at least visibly.
Is this a very public sign of the true state of 'stretch' of our AT fleet? It would, sadly, appear so.
Uncle G
Last edited by Uncle Ginsters; 16th Jan 2010 at 12:49.
A decade ago or so one would have reasonably expected to see some sort of RAF AT aircraft flying in aid. Given the Op tempo over the past 10 years there are unlikely to be any spare assets available.
On a slightly more positive note a British Airways 747 left the UK (via Denmark) today carrying relief supplies bound for Haiti. The entire cost of the aircraft (incl fuel) is being borne by BA.
Security concerns hampers Haiti aid effort - Times Online
Regards
On a slightly more positive note a British Airways 747 left the UK (via Denmark) today carrying relief supplies bound for Haiti. The entire cost of the aircraft (incl fuel) is being borne by BA.
Security concerns hampers Haiti aid effort - Times Online
Regards
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BA are banking the positive PR, and Virgin followed suit with a 747 full of rescue folk following the BA cab but without the european detour. I do wonder how the UK can donate millions when we are bankrupt, and although that sounds harsh given the situation, it is nevertheless a fact.
Go to Haiti and dance with the devil.
Go to Haiti and dance with the devil.
From discusions on Friday, it is / has been looked at. It would appear however, that there is no shortage of supplies in the area, the issue is getting them inti Haiti itself with one knakered runway available. Aircraft have been turned away as there is simply no room for them. Us pitching up would probably be no more than a pointless guesture and add to the congestion at this stage. Maybe once things have settled it will happen. As for available AT assets: I guess the VC10 can still carry freight, there's plenty of them around not doing much after decisions made at the end of the week!!
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The civil freighters can do just as good a job as the military stuff as there is no requirement for short field performance at Port Au Prince. The USS Carl Vinson is stationed on the coast but finding things difficult due to a lack of suitable landing zones for helicopters near to where people need them. With Haiti being 500 miles off the U.S coast there is little point in the U.K sending aircraft there if money can just as easily mobilize supplies from the U.S.
But it does prove the worth of owning a floating airfield!
The USS Carl Vinson is stationed on the coast but finding things difficult due to a lack of suitable landing zones for helicopters near to where people need them.
I dont think the Haitians need a cocktail party right now.
It is a very sad indication of the state of our armed forces in the UK. Some decades ago, not only would the RAF have been flying in but the RN would have been on scene within 48 hrs, having ships regularly stationed in the area.
Before Minigun and others slate the Carl Vinson, remember the fact that the ship not only has air assets but a hospital, food and can produce thousands of litres of drinking water every day.
It seems that a lot of international aid is on Hispaniola but is being either held up at the border with DR or cannot get through. Without a deep water harbour, some assault ships with LCVPs and LCUs could be useful but, the tinpot nation that we are these days could probably not afford the fuel to get there.
Before Minigun and others slate the Carl Vinson, remember the fact that the ship not only has air assets but a hospital, food and can produce thousands of litres of drinking water every day.
It seems that a lot of international aid is on Hispaniola but is being either held up at the border with DR or cannot get through. Without a deep water harbour, some assault ships with LCVPs and LCUs could be useful but, the tinpot nation that we are these days could probably not afford the fuel to get there.
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Article on 621st Contingency Response Wing, USAF deployment to PAP
At one point Thursday 44 planes were waiting to land at the airport, with no room to unload them and no fuel for departure refills.
With just two fuelling vehicles and two trucks to tow aircraft on the ground, the delays were inevitable, said a U.S. air force officer.
With just two fuelling vehicles and two trucks to tow aircraft on the ground, the delays were inevitable, said a U.S. air force officer.
Before Minigun and others slate the Carl Vinson, remember the fact that the ship not only has air assets but a hospital, food and can produce thousands of litres of drinking water every day.
No intention of slating the Carl Vinson, its a very capable platform. But if it can't help, then what good are any of our pygmy carriers?
Sadly for him, I suspect that MGD has yet to achieve sufficiently high rank to qualify for the level of staff training that would disabuse him of his extraordinarily distorted views about the role, capability, and history of the Royal Navy.
However, even a little research would enable him to discover that ships of both the Royal Navy and the Royal Fleet Auxiliary have an outstanding record of assisting, frequently with only a single destroyer, frigate, or RFA, backed up by ship's flights in more recent times, with the aftermath of natural disasters around the world - including earthquakes - and, very often, in places that even the Mighty Wokka could not reach.
This being so, what he disdainfully refers to as "pygmy carriers" (or indeed any warship or RFA) could undoubtedly put up a very good show indeed, if it were deemed appropriate for one or more to be sent. If MGD were to conduct a check on the number of warships and RFAs awarded the Wilkinson Sword of Peace, either individually or jointly, between 1966 and 2005, and the Firmin Sword of Peace since 2005, for providing humanitarian aid around the world, I believe that even he might feel that an apology, or at the least an amendment to at least two posts above, would be in order - not least because both INVINCIBLE and ILLUSTRIOUS have been recipients.
However, since I fear that his anti Navy bias may be beyond redemption, perhaps I should not hold my breath. But, for the avoidance of doubt, let me add that my admiration of the many inspiring achievements of the mighty Wokka is second to none.
Jack
However, even a little research would enable him to discover that ships of both the Royal Navy and the Royal Fleet Auxiliary have an outstanding record of assisting, frequently with only a single destroyer, frigate, or RFA, backed up by ship's flights in more recent times, with the aftermath of natural disasters around the world - including earthquakes - and, very often, in places that even the Mighty Wokka could not reach.
This being so, what he disdainfully refers to as "pygmy carriers" (or indeed any warship or RFA) could undoubtedly put up a very good show indeed, if it were deemed appropriate for one or more to be sent. If MGD were to conduct a check on the number of warships and RFAs awarded the Wilkinson Sword of Peace, either individually or jointly, between 1966 and 2005, and the Firmin Sword of Peace since 2005, for providing humanitarian aid around the world, I believe that even he might feel that an apology, or at the least an amendment to at least two posts above, would be in order - not least because both INVINCIBLE and ILLUSTRIOUS have been recipients.
However, since I fear that his anti Navy bias may be beyond redemption, perhaps I should not hold my breath. But, for the avoidance of doubt, let me add that my admiration of the many inspiring achievements of the mighty Wokka is second to none.
Jack
Last edited by Union Jack; 17th Jan 2010 at 00:20.
If Port au Prince's airfield wasn't so cluttered up with Executive jets shipping in TV reporters and camera crews there would be a lot more room for aircraft carrying essential aid.
Very true, looking on Google Earth at the available ramp space it looks pretty tight. When I heard Hillary C was due to visit yesterday, I imagined it being cluttered up even further by the likes of a C32 (757) at the very least.
However, the coverage I saw suggested she arrived in some something quite austere - looked like a CN235/295?
I wonder if she then went on to claim that she had braved a "Hot LZ", like that cringeworthy moment in Bosnia
However, the coverage I saw suggested she arrived in some something quite austere - looked like a CN235/295?
I wonder if she then went on to claim that she had braved a "Hot LZ", like that cringeworthy moment in Bosnia
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At one point Thursday 44 planes were waiting to land at the airport, with no room to unload them and no fuel for departure refills.
Have these other carriers not thought about holding roundtrip fuel for one of the many other unaffected islands nearby instead abandoning dry jets in the stricken airport?
Hopefully, this is just press dribble and none of those aircraft needed the fuel anyway.
Uncle G
Last edited by Uncle Ginsters; 17th Jan 2010 at 09:40.