Lightning Down At FAOB
Heard a Lightning speared in on take off at Overberg. Pilot ejected safely. No other news.
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During the airshow presumably. Sad news. :(
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Sadly pilot did not make it out from this one. Seems like hydraulics failure on t/o, according to people at the base and involved with air show. Twin stick, but no-one else on board.
Airfield raised net but aircraft did not make it that far. Have not posted pilot name (RIP) out of respect for family, friends and colleagues. No official announcement has yet been made. |
Some info here: Fighter jet crashes at air show: News24: SouthAfrica: News
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From Avcom.za...
i was at the show and heard pilot declare emergency. ac was routed to east of the field and pilot indicated possibility of needing to eject. he reported he was going to fly away from populated areas and again indicated he may need to eject. thereafter indicated he was having difficulties with control and was ejecting. shortly afterwards he reported "ejection failure" and the aircraft impacted the ground. I saw no parachute deploy. |
Tragic news:sad:
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That initial post is cold and hearltess. The pilot was killed in a tragic accident, have some compassion!:=
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To be fair to CF that was what the original reports said.
It could now be edited of course to reflect the reality. Tragic news. Gareth |
It was made with limited info available.
If it was known a fatality had occurred the post would have reflected that. Initial reports were that the pilot had survived. |
Dave Stock. FJ and test pilot.
RIP, mate. |
Really sad. I attended this show at Overburg four years ago, still have the video I took, some of my best experiences of S.A. were Thunder City and Overburg. R.I.P.
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Do we know any more about the seat failure? Right bugger that is. Poor DS.
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R.I.P . Still no exact news on what the cause was?
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Isn’t it more likely a failure of the canopy to eject within the sequencing of the seat release? :uhoh:Can the canopy be manual ejected?:(Any experienced Lightning people care to comment. All very sad:sad:
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Originally Posted by BOAC
Do we know any more about the seat failure? Right bugger that is. Poor DS.
Perhaps similar to George Aird's famous last moment ejection from that F1 at Hatfield but without the same happy ending. |
Have seen posts that DS reported 3 failed ejection attempts You can trace this back for yourself, starting with the links at the top of the thread. Give yourself time to get through all the spotter bolli. |
A fantastic aviator, Rest in Peace.
Dave flew me supersonic on a Lightning sortie only last year. What an amazing gentleman, and aviator. So young, and such a tragedy. My thoughts are with all his family and friends in Hermanus and Cape Town.
RIP Dave |
Cape Town – “Hydraulic malfunction. I’m bailing out. Ejection seat malfunction.” These were the last words heard by a former air force pilot before his fighter plane crashed on Saturday at the Bredasdorp air show. Dave Stock, 46, from Hermanus, died in the accident. Rescuers found remains of his clothing about 10km from the Overberg air force base. Stock was an experienced pilot who had completed close to 16 000 flying hours and had taken part in more than 100 air shows. Stock was performing a display flight in a Lightning jet from Thunder City in Cape Town – one of only four in the world – when it crashed. Investigation pending Colonel Marius van der Heever, commander of the Overberg air force base, said the Civil Aviation Authority would investigate the accident. “Right up until the end, Dave had communication with the tower and he was fully conscious when he crashed.” “There were also indications that he could not eject successfully,” said Van der Heever. |
Check the report on the loss of Lightning F3 XR721 on 5/1/66 for canopy problems. Post 14 is correct, there is an interrupter link between the canopy and the seat to stop the seat going till the canopy has gone as there is a large bit of metal frame in the way that is not frangible. The seat cannot eject if the canopy is on. There is a drill to manually jettison the canopy.
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Thanks for that CharlieJuliet. All still very sad.
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A dreadful tragedy for the pilot and his family. Obviously a very talented test pilot and a great loss to South African aviation.
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Regarding the ejection, he would have had little time at low level to do quite a lot. In the event that the seat wouldn't fire, he'd have to diagnose that the canopy was the problem. Then he'd have to jettison the canopy, and repull the handle. If that still failed, he'd have to manually separate from the seat, climb over the side and bale out. An awful lot to do in an aircraft at low level with little/no control.
Very much secondary to the human loss, it's also sad to see the loss of a beautiful aircraft. I had many enjoyable flights in that very machine. |
Quite right Midman. Pilot's Notes for the Lightning T5 state (as amended in 1973):
"During an ejection attempt, if the canopy fails to jettison after both seat firing handles have been pulled, it is likely that the canopy jettison system is faulty; in this event use the normal opening handle to remove the canopy." That's an awful lot of lateral thinking to be done at low altitude with faltering controllability, and with no Duty Pilot in the tower with all the books on hand and able to offer instant advice. Rest in Peace David Stock; you will not be forgotten by the Lightning fraternity. |
A sad event. Richard Branson flew with him a couple of yeas ago in a climb to height record attempt:
Richard Branson's co-pilot dies after jet ejector seat fails during air show | Mail Online Although I'm not quite sure why they call him Richard Branson's co-pilot. :confused: :ugh: |
SA Lightning T5
Recent photos taken of aircraft during display show a lower engine tailpipe fire on, or shortly after take-off. Fire burnt through to tailplane jack rendering aircraft unflyable. then reported ejection failure.
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I wondered about that - several of the photos show a small trail of smoke or vapour from the region of the lower jetpipe on take-off. Not being a WIWOL, I didn't know whether this was normal (e.g. oil breather of some sort) or abnormal.
The whole sad event is an utter tragedy. |
Looks like a repeat of the George Aird accident without the happy ending.
What a tragic loss this is. Perhaps the CAA were right after all! |
Perhaps the CAA were right after all! This is quite simply a tragedy, but almost certainly one within 'Normal operating risk', and not one that the CAA can jump on shouting "We told you so". |
Dave Stock Tribute
Gentlemen and perhaps ladies,
It is public knowledge now that on Sunday at Dave's house, in Hermanus there shall be a celebration of his life! (and what a life) This I am told shall be from 1500-2300 I am aware that many live far from Hermanus and might like to attend? This being almost holiday season, getting a place to stay might be difficult? His home is just a couple of minutes drive from where I am in Hermanus so, if anyone would like to stow their kit, go to his home, meet and pay tribute etc. stay over at mine on Sunday night etc. Then anyone is welcome! If it eases a bit of stress on what shall be a difficult enough day then I am glad if I can help a bit! I have limited beds but plenty of floor space, sofa, sleeper couch and the usual! I can take about 10 but can adjust a bit should the situation require just that? Sleeping bags would be useful! I would ask if you would like to do this, then please PM me and also would prefer no one here before 1200 on Sunday! From there you can shower, change, relax a bit etc. before going to the house for 1500 I am going to post this on other boards so please take note this is a first come first serve type offer! If I had a 400 room hotel, then I assure you, it would be open to everyone! Fly safe and I trust Sunday is truly a fitting tribute to Dave Stock! Regards AB 'Snapshot' |
Celebration of Dave Stock's life
I am at present on holiday in Cape Town from the UK and heard of the tragic news of Dave's death just before I left. Having spent an unforgettable day of flying with him in the Lightening a few years ago. I would very much like to join in your proposed celebration of his life this coming Sunday. Can I trouble you please to send me any details of the day: time, address etc and format for the day (if any).
I should be most grateful for your help. Stephen Setchell (021-789-2933) |
R.I.P Dave......... and the aircraft.
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The canopy 'clearance' was required for all marks of Lightning due to the heavy metal reinforcement in the top. There was a sad fatal (1966 I think) from Wattisham where an ejection failed due to a stuck canopy, and in the subsequent !FORCED LANDING! the seat ejected from the INTACT aircraft when the canopy was released by a bump in the field in which it had crashed. A valiant effort which resulted in the death of the pilot. One puzzle here (to sidetrack this sad thread) is why the ejection drills were not changed until 1973.
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Lightning canopy restrictor mechanism
A February 1962 copy of Lightning F1 Pilot's Notes states:
"Normal operation of the seat When either firing handle is operated the canopy is jettisoned immediately and removes a restrictor from the time-delay firing unit. After a delay of one second the seat is ejected and the drogue gun, which is operated by a static rod, fires half a second later ...... NOTE: The seat cannot eject if the hood fails to jettison." |
Similar wording to curvedsky's quote can be found in the Pilot's Notes (Part 1 Chapter 12) for both the F6 and the T5 at the end of their RAF service. Some words are subtly different compared with the early F1 sample above ("interdictor" for "restrictor", and "canopy" for "hood" in the 'NOTE' line), and the times have changed (F6, canopy depart to seat fire is 0.6 seconds, on the T5 it is only 0.4 seconds).
The 1973 amendment to the canopy jettison procedure, which I quoted in my post above, appears in Part 1 Chapter 9. BOAC is right; if the 1966 accident was the reason for the amendment, 7 years is an awful long time. Could there have been another accident in the early 70s, when someone ejected successfully after a canopy stuck and they got rid of it by using the normal operating handle? I am afraid that's a few years before my involvement with the Lightning began, but somebody may remember. |
What a lovely offer, Snapshot. I never knew Mr. Stock, but appreciated his flying when I went to Overburg four years ago, and also visited his[and your] wonderful town. Myself, and all the other enthusiasts who have visited Thunder City from England, will be thinking of him,and his family,and I would be grateful if you would forward our condolences to them. I am certain I speak on behalf of all Airshow spectators here.
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I seem to recall reading of a fair few hairy moments with Lightning seats, including a chap who felt his seat go ' click ' and move a fraction on the rail, resulting in a very ginger return & landing in what must have been a pretty awful time for him.
One thing; NOT apportioning blame or anything like it, but as Lightnings were notorious for jetpipe / lower fuselage fires, I wonder if a clued up Lightning person in the tower may have been able to see the smoke mentioned & transmit a warning, giving more time ? Sadly irrelevant now, unless it should be thought worth adopting this practice in future ( sod's law of course is that the next problem will be completely different ). |
The Lightning's fire warning system was pretty good, and generally would set the Standard Warning Panel going before any external signs of fire became visible, even to a formating aircraft. The system was activated when the Instrument Master Switch was on, and its serviceability was tested via a button on the SWP during pre-flight checks.
Which is why I am puzzled about reports and photographic evidence of external smoke and fire when the pilot's radio transmissions were apparently about hydraulic problems. |
All Lightnings required the canopy to leave the aircraft prior to ejection. A cable was attached to the canopy that allowed the seat cartridge to fire once the canopy was clear of the aircraft. If my memory serves me, the 1966 (?) accident was caused by a defect with said cable.
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D120A, the photos I saw showed a small, light coloured plume in the vicinity of the bottom of the lower jetpipe early in the flight. As I said, I didn't know whether or not that was normal.
Later photos taken immediately before the accident show a much longer, light coloured trail from the same area. I haven't seen anything which looks like fire - that would surely be evident as black smoke? Maybe the reports of 'fire' were actually observations of reheat on take-off? Did the Lightning have a dual redundant powered flying control hydraulic system - or would a massive hydraulic leak lead to complete loss of pitch control? Was there any manual reversion? |
There was no manual reversion but there were two independent hydraulic systems powering the flying controls. If both failed there was no control. The loss of control cases where fire was the primary cause were usually due to damage to control linkages.
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