Apache/Tornado navs
 

Has anyone else heard the rumour that spare Tornado navs are going to re-tread as front seat apache mates? Seems like a pretty good idea, atleast until the AAC are up to speed with the EW game etc.

Pi22 off

Thats a Rumour that goes back many years.
It started in the early 90's when apaches were due in service by 97.

Let's take a reality check here! No matter how good a Tornado Nav might be at the old EW stuff the front seater on an Apache is a PILOT and a HELICOPTER PILOT to boot! No matter how many spare Tornado Navs are loafing about in crewrooms there are not enough to weather the attrition rate that would be required to put more than a couple of them into the front - PILOTS - seat of an attack helicopter. Now, Harrier pilots - thats another story! ;)

I think its a grate idea. Maybe they'd get demoted to LCpl as well.

Eng, you mean promoted? :D

I hope your bull cwp is flashing, tqnct4cwp. The pilot is very definitely the back seater in the WAH64, the "gunner" rides up front. Perhaps as he sees more he could navigate as well (nav for short?).

Be under no illusion the pilot's job is to drive the weapon carrier to the release point (that goes globally), he doesn't necessarily have to be the aimer or have tactical command.

PS Before you start I am a pilot, only I'm a realistic one.

[ 09 October 2001: Message edited by: Grey Area ]

I know of an ex Tornado Nav who looked at this cross-over. He has just finished Shawbury......

As I understand it, the guy in the front works the weapons systems etc, and the back-seater flies. However, both people are trained to do both jobs, i.e. the WSO/NAV also needs to be a qualified pilot, incase of incapaciation (err....death) of the other party, and the need to continue of the mission.

SJ

Grey Area

If the guy in the front seat is not a pilot, what does he do if the rear seater catches a headfull of 23mm? I supose he puts his very smart all singing all dancing helmet between his legs and kisses his @rse goodbye!!

hey....... why dont we makr the DIF (dude in front) a bloke who map reads, delivers ordnance and relies on the more experiened DIB (you work it out) to get him to said ordnance release point. We could also give DIF some basic flying hands on to enable him to land in the event of DIF getting a 23mm in the skull, his flying would no doubt improve through osmosis in the unit to quite a high level but initially a nice run on would suffice.. aah but what would we call such a beast?? Anyone for re inventing this round thing we land on??? :D
:eek:

[ 11 October 2001: Message edited by: Lou Coutturn ]

If anybody knows the whereabouts of all these spare Navs I'm sure the Innsworth would like to know. As far as the front line is concerned, Navs are in very short supply. Before you can have somebody to retrain you need a body in the first place!!

Lou - Would have been a JAFA in a previous life?

I remember a briefing on the percieved roles of the front and rear seaters back around 89/90. When I suggested that perhaps we would be returning to the Pilot/Air Gunner concept (CREST having been in a year or so), it was hinted that comments like that would not do my career any good!!

:D

Fohn.. no I am afraid I went straight to the AWACS position as a lofty Cpl. :D Thing was we didnt even get a C/S

[ 14 October 2001: Message edited by: Lou Coutturn ]

Well knowing the forces as it is present.. they've probably thought about the idea.. Like that crazy one about putting guns on the eurofighter. Well we have to give em some chance don't we?! I would have thought it would have taken too much money to do such a scheme. But its upto the MOD in the end. its our money they're wasting. :cool:

It always makes me laugh when this old chesnut comes out, why should the AAC pay crab officers dosh large to do a job we all know that Lcpls can do without too much effort, all you'd get is whining Baggage claiming they are too clever to be Nvs and should be Pilots, just like they do anyway but it will be made 10x worse when the Driver is an NCO, the A*SE Force really do think you need a commission to fly!, Leave the crabs in NRSA land and leave the real Airmen to do the job, just like in 1914

Woof, Woof :D

Personally, as an ex gunship driver who has recently spent a few months with navs ....

the job is ideal for a nav .......

trouble is the AAC are too narrow minded to see it ...

ka kite a no eho

Flyingrockdj (or should I say Neil), you should know better than the tripe you have been spouting above. RAF fast jet navs are weapons system operators and navs. Most of them that I have flown with can fly helos to a standard better than that of the average AAC pilot. Having thrown this can of gas on the fire.......I have been a QHI in the AAC for 12 years and in the RAF for almost 3 years...I feel qualified to make this statement. I seems to me the only whining and whinging going on is from the JNCO/SNCO elements of the Corps.

Chinook, say Hi to Bill Jarvis and remind him that he owes me some metal wings!!

Badger

I don't know, but Ive been told, "Air Force Wings are make of Gold"