Jaguar Aircraft Accidents
 

I am updating a book dealing with RAF aircraft accidents and would appreciate help from the Jaguar community please. In essence, I am trying to trace the names of three overseas pilots who were killed in accidents whilst flying the aircraft.

The summary details are;
1 Nov 78 XX759 near Selkirk from 226OCU - pilot was Ecuadorian
2 Apr 82 XX122 in the Wash from 54 Sqn - pilot was Norwegian and name may have been Bjornstad or derivation of same.
27 Nov 86 XX732 near Hawick from 226 OCU - pilot was USAF exchange student David Buhto but the name is being spelt in different ways, so need to get it right

Co-incidentally I was browsing today and came across a site that lists losses going back to the '50s. (www.ukserials.com)

It is astonishing how many accidents there were then in comparison to today. Presumably a combination of a much larger armed forces then, and hopefully vastly improved flight safety and aircraft reliability today.

Sorry for not directly answering the OPs q.

USAF Pilot correct spelling was Buteau - see link:

1986 | 3366 | Flight Archive

I completely agree it is astonishing. Funny how in a different thread we are weaker pilots now who have lost an edge and back then it was all about the pilot and his machine:yuk:

Well according to the roll of honour within a booklet that was produced for the Jag's retirement (The Cat's Bow Out, Royal Air Force Jaguars 1973-2007), two of the pilots killed in your list were Capt T Bjornstad RNoAF and Capt D Bateau USAF. The first accident is not listed, though not surprising given the time constraints that the list was complied in.

Pilot of XX122 was Capt Thor Bjornstadt. Details at 1982 | 1090 | Flight Archive

Accidents In General
 

My original note has obviously spawned an interest in accidents in general. First, however, thank you for responding, I now have two of the three names I seek.

Between VE-Day 1945 and end-1998, the RAF lost 9330 aircraft and 6200 lives as the result of accidents and the occasional operational loss - seems incredible now. For the last 55 years, the figures are 2600 and 1950 respectively. However, in addition to the reducing numbers taking to their parachutes, 'assisted abandonments' (ejections) to the end-1996 were over 700. Accident rates, set against flying hours, has fallen exponentially.

All of those accidents are mentioned here: Target Lock: Jaguar : Squadron Service : Royal Air Force

Just looking at that potted history of the Jag Force and came across the following:

Anyone know what this 'incident' was?:confused:

A Sgt, a JT and 4 SAC's killed in a RTA while on a deployment (in Germany if memory serves), there was a memorial to the 6 outside the JRM at Coltishall.

Full details, 5 RAF personnel from 41 Sqn's RIC were killed when a bus carrying 40 personnel overturned near the small town of Sasbach-Walden in the Black Forest, while the Sqn was on exercise with the Canadians at Baden Sollingen. A sixth airman not from 41 Sqn was also killed, and many of the other personnel on board were injured.

Thanks Mainjafad, hell of a blow to a squadron, especially if all from the same section.:(

I remember the XX122 incident well, we were out recovering the aircraft on Easter Monday, with it being the lowest tide of the year. Sad to see, especially after Capt Thor Bjornstadt and his fellow Scandinavian pilot (Dane) were part of the mad 3 Sqn Xmas hoolie in the NAAFI a few months earlier.

I remember the two of them 'riding tandem' on a commandeered bike, hardly maintaining balance all the way up from an earlier Sqn beer call :)

I think the other guy also hit some power cables in Germany (and survived) a year or two later, but the mists of time......

Cheers,

Kokpit.

The Memorial to the guys killed in the Coach crash was 6 trees with a Brass plaque mounted on a stone. It was mid way between the the NAAFI and the JRM. When I left Neat when it closed it was still there. Not sure if it still is.

Correct name ??
 

From the target lock website:

Jaguar GR.3 XZ363/FO, assigned to 41(F) squadron RAF, crashed in Alaska on July 25th 2001 during a routine training sortie from Eielson AFB as part of exercise Cope Thunder. The pilot of the aircraft, Flt Lt Jason Hayes of 54(F) squadron, was unfortunately killed in the accident.

Was he not Justin Hayes ??

(Knew his father from Puma days - apologies to all concerned if this is wrong)

The 41 Sqn Memorial was relocated to the Scottow Cemetery in 2005. Photos on the 41 Sqn Retro site Here

Flt Lt Hayes
 

His full name is: Jason Lawrence Hayes

I stand corrected.

The correct name of the norwegian pilot killed in Jaguar xx122 is, Capt Tore Bjørnstad.

Does anyone recall a non fatal incident where the aircraft hit a radio/TV mast in cloud causing heavy damage to the aircraft?
Time has moved on and the details abit thin, happened in UK, emergency landing at Bedford?

Jaguar Aircraft Accidents
 

14 Sep 84 Jaguar GR1 XX977

Rain showers and low cloud prevented the pilot flying his planned route in south-west Wales so he amended his routing to regain track south of Great Malvern. At that point, he estimated the cloudbase was 1500ft with a visibility of 3-5Km. However as he approached the Charwelton Radio Tower which was the next turning point, the weather deteriorated such that the lowering cloudbase obscured the hills ahead. The pilot decided to climb out from low level and as the aircraft the cloud he selected full dry power and started a 15 deg climb. The aircraft entered climb almost immediately and, very shortly afterwards, struck the Radio Tower. Following the impact, the aircraft yawed and rolled to the left and the port engine surged and stagnated at 70% rpm ................................
(Aircraft recovered safely to Bedford)

Off at a bit of a tangent................
 

....................but I went to school with somebody named Sean (Shaun?) Weatherall who I'm told went on to be a Jaguar driver. Anybody heard of him?

TN.

41 Squadron Memorial
 

There is also a roadside memorial close to the coach crash site at Sasbach-Walden in Southern Germany, near Baden-Sollingen. We (3 x 41 Sqn Jaguars) visited the site to lay a wreath on the anniversary of the accident and met the local doctors and emergency teams who saved further loss of life. I have a photograph of the memorial and guess there is a copy on the 41 Sqn archive site.

There was an incident I think during the Granby work up period, when an aircraft impacted the Colt approach lights, landed safely, then caused a lot of head scratching due to the the shock load imposed on the tailplane support structure.

Jaguar XX977
 

The cockpit section of XX977 still survives (in my garage) and I have recently been able to supply power to most of it including the PMD, red console lights, ground cooling vents, artificial horizon, pitots, numerous warning lamps, incidence gauge and a few other things.

Cheers
Paul

I was there
 

This was horrendous......and I was the only WRAF onboard. I have never got over it.
:(

To Lay ghosts.....
 

I was the only girl on that coach. It was horrendous!
The brakes were u/s, on the way to a beer call, so the driver was taking us back down to camp when they failed completely.
Because the coach had been used in an exercise as an ambulance the day before, the removed seating had not been secured properly. On impact, a lot of the seats shunted forward and caused most of the fatalities.
In my opinion, the MT driver was aware we would not make it round the next bend, and crashed the bus into the tree to stop us going off a steeper edge. Non of us would have made it, if he had'nt.
I have always felt he was a hero..........
I would darely love to visit this spot you mention in Germany. Please could you let me know how to find it.

Best wishes Budgie:(

"On June 16th 1983 GR.1s XZ105 and XZ110, both of No II(AC) squadron, collided at Goose Bay, Canada during a break to land. Both pilots ejected."

Now i believe that the 2 gentlemen involved in this 'Sqn' manoeuvre were the current CAS and the late Sqn Ldr Brian Robinson. An absolutely fascinating insight to the last of the RAF's proper aircraft. :ok:

Budgie,

I was at Bruggen at the time when the coach was recovered there, you that survived were very lucky, I take it the none 41 sqn person lost was the driver :(

The Jag Sqns were a bit like a close knit community and everyone tended to get to know everyone else, it was a truly sad day :(

I think the pilot was a certain S-W, known by some as "wocket". Sorry, finger trouble. This was in relation to post 21.

"Late" Brian Robinson? Didn't know he'd left us - shame. Flew with B(F)R in Oman.

KMB01

Hi Budgie;

I remember you flashing your "green boob" in the hospital at Bule. You also climbed into my hospital bed to keep warm.

The driver Pete Fox, did save our lives that day - his last words were "I'm going for the trees - Its the only way". Of course in true RAF style (as the bus was military - unlike the Bandsmens) the inquest was held in secret 13 months later and the cause was stated as "Driver inexperience, and, Brake failure". I was the only surviver with extensive knowledge of busses and the leadup to the crash - and the "investigators" refused to take a statement from me. I had known Pete for several years and as an MTD he had plenty of experience. The night before the crash he told me that he had been ordered to drive the bus and when he complained that the bus was'nt up to it he was threatened with the "failing to comply" charge.

If you want more info and/or pictures of the monument reply to [email protected]

good to know your still around..

Memorial photo
 

That would be the SEngO then? You will know that the rumour mill ran and ran about various aspects of that bus but nothing came out at the inquiry except wrong place, wrong driver. In other words: it should not have been on that road; blame the navigator or the driver, not the vehicle.

PM me with your email address and I will send you a photo of the memorial.

Wrong Wrong Wrong. Pete Fox the driver saved us that day giving his life in the process. The route was pre planned and a regular run for the tour busses based at the Canadian Base. To save money for beer the SEngO decreed that the RAF bus must be used. The bus was unable to climb the hills and was overheating so the driver headed down to get out of that area. It was too late the bus (a 52 seat body on a 39 seat chassis) had origional brakes and they failed. The bus origionated at Wattisham an the WO i/c MT Servicing got a reprimand and an immediate posting!

Budgie was incorrect about the bus history. It was at Wattisham that it was used as an ambulance during exercises and it was there that the seats had been incorrectly installed.

Thank you
 

I am intrigued....cannot remember the bed, but definately the green boob!
I am so glad you posted what Pete Fox said before he died. I always knew it to be true, and when I refused to agree he had been drinking the night before...........I was not approached again!!!! In fact, on my return to the Sqn, I was not allowed to talk about it at all. He is my hero!! Thanks for posting .....

Interesting...

If you wish to know more about the accident concerning Jaguar T2 XX828 on 01 June 1981, I shall be pleased help.

I was the front seater and we both ejected successfully. :ok:

I have stored the Mod accident report.

Jaguar Crash - XZ120 - 2 Sqn 25.2.1977
 

I'm trying to find out about the XZ120 crash.
There are different versions. Perhaps someone can help.

The book "Second to None" by Hans Onderwater says, the crash happenend 6 miles south of Nordhorn Range, Germany during a 4-ship sortie.

Ejection History

25th February 1977
RAF Jaguar GR1 XZ120 2 Sqn Flew into ground 2 miles south Nordhorn Range Flight Lieutenant Douglas Graham Stein killed

and:
2sqnass-Our Aircraft

XZ120 - 7 Apr 1976
Fatal crash following a training sortie to the Nordhorn bombing range in Northern Germany. (Flt.Lt. Doug Stein)
(not even the date is correct - what about the rest?)


But here it says the Jaguar crashed into the sea off Nordholm, Denmark.

Target Lock: Jaguar : Squadron Service : Royal Air Force

On 25 February 1977 GR1 - XZ120 - of No II(AC) squadron crashed into the North Sea off Nordholm, Denmark after losing contact during a formation join-up. The pilot, Flt Lt D G Stein, was killed.

and:
UK Military Aircraft Losses
25/02/1977 XZ120 Jaguar GR1 2 Sqn Crashed into the North Sea off Nordholm, West Germany after loss of contact in a formation join up. The pilot was killed.

and:
ASN Aircraft accident 25-FEB-1977 SEPECAT Jaguar GR.1 XZ120

Date: 25-FEB-1977
SEPECAT Jaguar GR.1
Operator: 2 Squadron, RAF
Registration: XZ120
C/n / msn: S.121
Fatalities: Fatalities: 1 / Occupants: 1
Airplane damage: Written off (damaged beyond repair)
Location: into North Sea 2 miles south of Nordholm - Germany (?)
Phase: En route
Nature: Military
Departure airport:
Destination airport:

Narrative:
Crashed into the North Sea off Nordholm, West Germany after loss of contact in a formation join up. The pilot was killed.

There is no place NORDHOLM in WEST GERMANY.

??
Any ideas? Who knows?

95i
 

Maybe the airbase in reference is NORDHOLZ, on the Cuxhaven peninsula, and also near the Nth sea.

Nordhorn was the name given to a military weapons range where this accident happened.

95i - you will probably need to get the BoI details from MOD to establish EXACTLY where this happened and when.

At the moment, apart from a choice of dates, you have a choice of

Nordholm, Denmark (near the sea)
Nordholz, Germany (near the sea and with an airfield)
Nordhorn, Germany (miles from the sea!)

or other offers/none of the above..............................