Ainsworth says Afghanistan is "winnable"
 

Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth says the conflict in Afghanistan is "winnable".

It seems that the majortity of the British public don't think so from most of the comments on the BBC have your say site and from what I hear discussed at the many military venues I vistit, most serving people think it is unwinable.......Discuss.

I watched him being interviewd by Huw Edwards yesterday morning. My immediate impression was of a man who seems totally uncommitted, to the point of actually lacking an appreciation of the significance and enormity of the post he fills.

So he also feels the campaign is 'winnable', well he responded to Gen Sir David Richards statement that we are in for a long haul with; Quote "Look, the notion that we are going to be in Afghanistan for 30 to 40 years in anything like the form that we are now is ludicrous" Unquote. In fact Gen Richards said the "nation-building" could take 40 years, at no point did he say 30 or 40 years warfighting.

No wonder that this weasel has so little support.

In my opinion it seems the only information we get through news agencies from Afghanistan is the news of repatriating soldiers, and I would be surprised if this didn't give the general public a one-sided view about this conflict. Obviously if the news doesn't report any progress of any kind.

What annoys me is the media (I'm not sure if it's intentional) ignoring projects being undertaken in Afghanistan in order to improve conditions, building schools etc.

The quote below is from the Arbroath Herald: MARINES' PART IN AFGHANISTAN'S REGENERATION - Arbroath Today

I personally believe that if you keep up this kind of effort then this conflict is definitely winnable. Balancing the Hearts and Minds aspect with the need to actually combat the Taleban.

This sounds like it could be very similar to the UNMIK (UN Mission in Kosovo), not keeping a military presence as such but more of an oversight for elections and development. In which case it certainly seems likely. (I do know the comparison of Kosovo and Afghanistan isn't the best :ok:)

Just like Northern Ireland secretary, I think Defence Minister is a bit of a poison chalice.

Afghanistan winnable? - Study your history my friend, and count the victors of the past (you won't need too many fingers).

Our military have good reason to be there, they have been ordered so.

Our politicians have no good reason to subject our military to the hopeless task they have been given.

Get them out, forthwith.

What is a Trumpeters Job?
 

I am always a bit surprised that no mention is ever made of enemy dead. Is this political correctness or what? It wouldn't be giving away too much if the Army would give out statements simply saying that over the past week, in the operational area, XX Taliban were killed.

Snearing arse ! do you thing he knows the Herc behind him is not a E'llicopter ?

No, it is a hard lesson learnt from Vietnam. The Vietnam war eventually became a war of body counts. We have killed more of them than they have of us so we are winning.

Or, as Ed Macy said in Apache, we are not in to 'Kill TV'.

As for balanced reportage, we get news from our press releases and embeds, we get precious little news of the other nations except where it serves a propaganda purpose - "Soldiers of Country X don't fight and get 2 cans of beer per day whereas our gallant lads . . . "

I read an English language newspaper in Copenhagen a little while back, quite illuminating. While they pulled out of active operations they still left a significant number of troops in harms way in a support role.

New Afghan Law
 

It is widely reported today that the Afghan Government have passed a law making it legal for a man to starve his wife if she refuses to have s*x with him. Is this any governement that we should be expending British lives and money to "Support"? I think not!

Define 'winnable'.

What exactly is the potential gain?

Here's the bbc link : BBC NEWS | South Asia | Row over Afghan wife-starving law

I entirely agree with you, but Mr Karzai believes this was necessary to gain hardline support ahead of the elections. In my opinion he shouldn't be begging for their support, but obviously thats not the case. They claim its a watered down version of the bill that was withdrawn a few months ago, but to me it certainly seems pretty horific by our standards.

The americans have appeared to kept pretty quiet about this, possibly because they support the leadership of Karzai and would give him a concession to ensure he stays in power. Got to love american foreign policy!!!

If you are running a bad venture and you happen to be a nutter, you don't put someone in charge of it who might tell you that you are wrong.... Hello Bob! :ok:

17 August 2009 - Sangin
 

That all well and good, but the minute you remove the said Marines from the area you will be back to square one faster than you can shout Taliban.....

No one wins in Afghanistan, ask the Russians......

Similar to the other idea I read as to why do we not buy simply buy the opium for the medical trade from the farmers and starve the Taliban of it's funding...... Simple, shortage on the street creates price hikes, more cash means you pay more for the stuff from the farmers than UK PLC which then means UK PLC would have to stump up more money and market forces and up we go in an ever increasing spiral.

QFI - Indeed it's beyond belief that we are supporting a country that has these ideas ! Is it really worth fighting for?

Just few weeks ago a Middle Eastern gentleman, well-versed in International Relations, said to me over a coffee...

"These people live to fight. While you are there they will fight you. When you go home they will fight each other."

Mans got a point.

What constitues 'winning the Afghan war'? And what is the exit srtategy?

I think we need a PPRuNe poll to establish exactly how we feel about the illustrious Bob Ainsworth..

I'd suggest the following categories:

a) Bob Ainsworth is a Muppet

b) Bob Ainsworth is a complete Muppet

c) Bob Ainsworth is a complete and utter Muppet

d) Bob Ainsworth is a fantastic bloke who really understands the intricacies of his Ministerial brief.

Any Mods fancy setting that up? Pleeeese!!

Muppet
 

This would not work. You would effectively cut out the middle man and the Taliba could simply take the money direct from the farmer - guaranteed sales, no shipping costs and no marketting.

Cargosales wrote:

Job done...

Vote in the Ainsworth poll here - vote early, vote often ...

As another C17 joins the circuit bringing back fallen comrades I sincerely hope this man develops a rare skin disorder there is no known cure for :ugh:

Ainsworth says about Afghanistan 'wibble'...:\

Fair comment for a union convenor at Jaguar Motors

Old fat One - it is a certain group of Middle Eastern 'gentlemen' who funded the madrassas in Northern Pakistan using oil money and provided, under the guise of education, the cannon fodder for the Taleban. Unfortunately we keep on doing business with them.

Bumbling Bob Ainsworth does it again
 

The Daily Telegraph seems to agree...

Bumbling Bob Ainsworth

The majority of the responses to the article express similar views. How much longer can he be kept in post before it dawns on Broon that he has completely and utterly lost all credibilty? :ugh:

Draw any comparisons....?
 

Fighting a counter insurgency war in the enemy's homeland 1000's of miles from your own nation against a well trained, well equipped, fanatical enemy who has no regard for human life. Un-supported by a government who insist the conflict is winnable but refuses to support the front-line troops and give them the tools to take the fight to the enemy.

All this with the media focusing on the negative aspects of the war, public opinion fading and the sight of young men and women returning home, almost daily, in caskets. The forgotten hundreds of severely injured servicemen trying to rebuild their lives with little or no government assistance.

Didn't this happen in South East Asia in the 1960s and 70s ?

Afghanistan winnable? :mad:

The best poem since 'Flying West' - IMHO
 

Written by Sergeant Andy McFarlane, who is based at Camp Bastion in Afghanistan and serves with the Adjutant General's Corps, is on his second tour of Afghanistan in as many years.


The leviathan of the sky does land

In England's green and pleasant land.

Its cargo more precious than gold

The body of a hero, bold.

Once the giant's engines stopped

The cargo ramp is gently dropped

Carried by six on shoulders true

The hero is saluted by the crew.

The coffin draped in Union Jack

Is slowly carried out the back.

Out of the dark and into light

Slowly down the ramp and to the right.

The six approach the hearse all black

And place the hero gently in the back.

The six then turn and march away

Their duty has been done this day.

Politicians usually have much to say

No sign of them near here this day.

They hide away and out of danger,

Much easier if the hero is a stranger.

The hearse with its precious load

Moves slowly out on to the road.

The floral tributes line the route

While comrades snap a smart salute.

At the edge of a Wiltshire town

The cortege slows its pace right down.

The streets are packed, many deep,

Some throw flowers, most just weep.

The crowd have come to say farewell,

The church bell rings a low death knell.

Regimental standards are lowered down

As the hero passed through the town.

The cortege stops and silence reigns

The townsfolk feel the family's pain.

The nations' flag lowered to half mast

Our brave hero is home at last.


A most moving and wonderful tribute that will surely be remembered in years to come.

...and in mine this afternoon.

http://www.kdmercer.com/BlackWhite/I...p_v1_800BW.jpg

As on previous occasions, emotions ran high this afternoon and as the Church bells sounded, flags were dipped and many tears were shed. How many more of these corteges will pass down our High Street?

Very sad, Afghanistan is unwinnable, I wonder how many more of our brave soldiers will come back with injuries on in coffins?

Obama needs to win something to get a second term, therefore the Brown government had to back him up.

Interesting pictures on the link of events during the USSR's adventures in Afghanistan.


English Russia The War in Afghanistan

Looks very familiar

I'm sick to the back teeth risking my life for that poo poo hole. Bobby needs to go to the front line and see warfare for himself! Perhaps take a ride in snatch rover? Tool around on a Chinny during an IRT? Fly about Helmund in a Sea King? The man is a joke, just like the "men" before him. But who is better? It seems to me being the Minister for Armed Forces is a poison chalice that is a backward step in the Labour Party?

When the rich wage war - it's normally the poor that die!

It just really pi@@es me off when comments like that are thrown around - is he going on Military advice? Or what he generally believes? If the top brass are telling him its winnable than they need removing from post!

Far far too many. For everyone who is out there, has been out there or is preparing to go, you have my upmost respect.

As soon as I can I’m off to Wootton Bassett, I won't know the brave sole, but it's something I feel I must do.

The (un) winnable war
 

The more I read, the more angry I become when I see the inevitable consequence of fighting this absolutely stupid and un-winnable war. Whilst the mission creep continues, the politicians tell the public that it will take time, and we need to convert a poverty stricken correupt regime into a modern democracy. The top military - e.g., Sir Richard "Dammit" sound more and more like some of the WW1 military leaders - I don't quite know who is worse and who is misleading who.

I have more chance of winning the lottery and I don't buy a ticket, than there is of turning round this hopeless basket case of a nation, riddled by corruption, centuries to go in terms of civilisation as we know it, and where successive battles have all been lost to the lawless and corrupt native forces in a very difficult and challenging theatre of war, and where the enemy do not wear an identifying uniform.

As for needing to fight this remote war to prevent it coming to the streets of Britain - how about the theory that if we kept our sticky little noses out of irrelevant peices of remote real estate , then perhaps the terrorists would not be that interested in coming to UK to fight back? I don't see too many terrorists wishing to enter Switzerland to become muslim terrorists !!

The huge costs and grief inflicted on our now sadly depleted armed forces and theiur highly supportive families is overwhelming, and I salute their bravery when fighting such a pointless and unwinnable war. Today's territorial gains are merely tomorrow's Taliban recovery areas - we have neither the men nor equipment to make long term holds and even longer term civilianisation and democracy conversions.

Last but not least, in times where the Bankers have almost bankrupted UK Ltd., we could well spend the £?Bn in either reducing national debt, or supporting other worthwhile UK causes - e.g., Hospitals.

Finally we could also impose better UK immigration security, and combine this with instant repatriation without appeals, - after all, if anyone doesn't like our traditions, religions and customs, schools and other cultural heritage, then it's not for them clearly, and they should be rapidly assisted to vacate UK Ltd.,

Meantime, all my warmest congratulations to all HM Forces out there, doing a splendid job under almost impossible conditions and without the necessary level of equipment support, and "minded" by ministers who haven't got the first idea of what it's like.

:ok:

A Selection of the great British Publics impression of Browns 4th Choice for the job that ranks #23 in Cabinet:


Succinctly put I think.

Christ... even Buffoon was better.

Maybe it's time that paliament reviewed the post of defence minister and decided on it being an elected member but from any of the parties who would be voted into position. We have wasted so much time with people who are clearly out of their depth - have vested interests and too little time to carry out anything meaningful.