So, where was the Nimrod guy acting as a talking head yesterday pointing out the fact that their withdrawal impinged on cases like this?

You all missed a massive chance to strike whilst the iron was hot, oh well....

NO MPA's
 

What makes this such a travesty is that the government saw fit to effectively throw away the £billions spent so far AND not even recognised the need for ANY kind of MPA.

Even a few Coastguarder-types such as the HC-144A Ocean Sentry (USCG); CN-235 (like Mexico) of C-295 (like Chile) could have provided a limited range of capability of the MRA4 and at a fraction of the cost.

It would also have maintained a cadre of maritime specialists so as to keep open the option of going for P8's (or whatever) when the economy can stand it.

Same applies to the FAA. I can just imagine when the RN eventually gets a new flat-top the response to the pipe "Hands to Flying Stations"......

"whats's that mean?"
"dunno, mate"
"haven't heard that one before"
"what do we do?"
"I'll ask the Chiefy"
"Don't ask me, this is my first time afloat, and I've been in x years!"

Did anyone tell our wonderful lords and masters that skills fade and perish:sad:. And when the've gone, the're gone for ever.......

MB

Seat pin

Oh dear oh dear,

Feeling a little insecure and precious are we? All emotional and unable to handle the stress? So let me get this right – our govt has just wasted £3.5Bn of taxpayers money, removed a massive capability that puts UK defence at risk and will not be replaced, is about to make redundant hundreds of fellow RAF members and in particular, those from the Nimrod Force and is about to reduce a vast swathe of the NE of Scotland to an economic wilderness… and your only response is to mention your AEO inferiority complex on a public forum!! Dry your eyes princess.

Absolutely no chip on my shoulder with regards to the AEO fraternity. Some of the finest people I have met in my life happened to be AEO’s (one still is). Regardless of anyone’s brevet, branch or trade, there are those who are good and you respect them and there are those who aren’t. I have flown with AEO’s who provided strong leadership, guidance and direction, those who offered logical suggestions both when planning missions and executing them and those who quite frankly struggled to add 5 degrees and 1 kt to the Tac Navs assessment of target submarine course and speed (Tac Nav has the submarine going 357 degrees at 8 kts – AEO has 362 degrees at 10 kts..Err I mean 9 kts…).

Two traits that the good ones had were that none of them had undergone a penis enlargement procedure (as far as I know) and all of them could give as good as they got in the banter department. Spelt b-a-n-t-e-r if you’re struggling with the long word. But if it helps you, I will refrain from taking cheap shots at AEO’s in future. I promise not to mention dimmer switches, AEO eject buttons or keeping the sun off the tac screen and in your case I won’t mention your callsign (Table-4-1) or your legendary radio reply to HMS Swiftsure after she called FLUSHING until 1045Z – “Confirm you’re FISHING until 1045Z?”

Seriously though – if you do feel unloved, take my advice. Stop playing Leonard Cohen albums and go and speak to the padre. The last thing Kinloss needs right now is another mad AEO running across northside with 2 pencils up his nose!

Party Animal

Oh how I chuckled, it's you who kept the Sqn line book! I concur (whoops nearly gave myself away there, except my monocle gives my trade away) with your views on AEO's. In fact there are Cpl's I would trust with my life, and pilots I wouldn't trust with a lawn mower. However, thats not what I was wanting to write.

Tester78

Do you remember Interkitty 125?

Anyone else

We in the forces, (or ex in my case), always have a problem with other aircraft types, tanks and ships for we only have a perception of what they do. To maritime guys (and gals) Fast Jet pilots zoom around for a couple of hours and go home, its hardly worth getting all dressed up for that. Tankers just fly on autopilot for 5 hours in circles. Transport ac merely travel from A to B picking up allowances and little else. The only exception is the SAR helo for we know how difficult that job is. AAC helos are just mad flying like hooligans at 10ft or less, and the RN consists of 'Roger wait out'. Our job of course is varied and difficult, as a 6 month OCU proves, or are we just slow?

The truth of course, is much different, and we are all guilty (myself included) of not appreciating how skillful our colleagues in all services are until of course we get to see it at first hand. Because so many on this forum are not aware of all the facts about the MRA4 they make assumptions on what they do know and most, of course, is incorrect.

So if you feel the Nimrod community is moaning unnecessarily, well its because we cannot see the logic in cancelling the ac. If you scrap Harrier, you still have Tornado and Typhoon that whilst might not do things in the same way are still offensive fast jet. There is NOTHING to replace the Nimrod in the UK inventory now, and that is the shameful fact. Yes, until the issue fades from memory we will continue to bemoan its loss. I know that money spent is just that and counts for nothing in the way that the Government paymaster thinks. Its the future costs of support they were trying to reduce, £200m pa off the spreadsheet, well that helps, now next subject. The devastation caused by that decision in human terms, is of no concern. Not enough votes to worry about, after all, its Scotland and they don't vote Tory at all these days, so nothing lost there.

Remember, I am retired, but I still have a life of memories on the ac and I am not likely to forget that easy.

Some bugger better send me some PBT please. I can solve this with five brave men, a few water pistols (better than SA80) and the loan of Lord Trenchard.... (the Yacht)

we "borrow" CallMeDave for a jolly sailing trip, take him out to, ooh about 30 west, push him into an Aircrew "liferaft" from a seat and then set course for the Pub.

Our departing comment would be; "lonely out here ain't it. Still want to ditch the nimrod?"

We leave him there for 12 hours or so - just enough time to ponder and then we fish him back in.

Whose with me?

WGoogle Image Result for http://zedomax.biz/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/anchor.png[IMG]file:///C:/Users/Dave/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]

Spiffing idea, Cornish - count me in! Ooh, hang on a minute, "30 West"? Isn't that out somewhere in something called the Bay of Biscay? Last time I was there:-


it was a tad rough (only a Force 7 or so) and I was on a big ship/boat/whatever having a never-to-be-repeated experience. I'm still all for your idea, but I think I'll wave farewell to you and CallMeDave from the jetty and wait for you in the pub... :ok:

I know, I know - hat, coat,door...

Yesterdays SAR
 

Re: yesterays SAR: Well done falmouth coastguard for successfully coordinating a successful and complicated rescue, well done to the 13 crew members who voluntarily stayed on board to fight the fire, well done to the ship that went to the aid of the 100+ people floating in liferafts, well done to RN for flying to the Scilley Islads (just in case) and well done to the French Government for providing the fixed wing presence over the ship because UK Government were unable to do so.

We should have worn the dark blue?
 

When I converted Shack to Nimrod in early '71 we were told that the Nimrod was an interim measure until a 'proper' maritime aeroplane was introduced - ten years maybe! Apparently the Comet had not won the competition for the Shack replacement (Tri-Star?) but was a short term political decision. It was great to fly and operate but very short on range/endurance - 30 west is a bit of a joke - the USA or Canada had to cover that - I know because I flew from the other side of the pond as well.
Is was always my wish that the whole of Maritime would be transferred to the Navy, who understood the operation, unlike many in the RAF who were making decisions based on ignorance of the role.( I also remember the announcement of the Nimrod AEW being met with hoots of laughter by those in the crew room who guessed from day one that it would never work.)
If maritime had gone to the Navy then there would have been enhanced career prospects for Navy (including ex-RAF) pilots, navigators, FE's and AEO's and also much cost saving due to compatibility of equipments. Of course the Maritime Squadrons would have been appreciated and operated far better than they were by the RAF high ups. Also, I think there would have been a much better chance of a multi role maritime/surveillance/ECM aircraft being developed to replace the Nimrod. Those not happy at changing to dark blue could easily have been absorbed into other commands in the RAF. Shame it never happened, I would have liked to retire one rank up!

Response to my resignation from the Tories
 

As a result of the cancellation of the MRA4 I resigned my long standing membership of the Conservative party.

Here is the response received today from my local MP. I don't think I need to express my opinion!:D

House of Commons
London
SW1A OAA

26 October 2010

Thank you for your email of 19 October opposing the Government's decision, as a result of the strategic defence review, not to bring the Nimrod MRA4 into service.

I am particularly sorry that you felt it necessary to resign your membership of the Conservative Party.

I fully appreciate your concerns about reductions to the Royal Air Force. Unfortunately, the scale of the challenges we face has prompted the need to restructure for the future, which involves undertaking a series of reductions such as the one you mention. However, restructuring our
defences is not tantamount to compromising our security.

On the contrary, the Review has set out sustainable plans that will ensure that by 2020, we have a fast jet fleet based around two of the most capable fighter jets anywhere in the world -the Typhoon and Joint Strike Fighter. They will be complemented by a growing fleet of unmanned air vehicles.

Furthermore, strategic air lift will be enhanced by the introduction of the A400M and ,A.330 transport aircraft giving us the ability to fly our forces wherever they are needed in the world. I believe these measures will help the RAF continue to fulfil its vital role.

I do hope you might reconsider your decision to leave the Association, even if you still disagree with the Govemment's approach. Being a member of Party does not mean having to endorse every decision it takes. Quite the opposite: the Party needs people like you to inform and influence the
debate from within.

Kind regards,

Robert Walter MP

The Navys understand maritime.....
 

.....that'll be why the Dutch navy got rid of their P-3s to the Germans then.

The Ancient Mariner

PS the chaps on 320 were spitting nails as well.

What not even Shadwell?;)

And no I didn't look, he wasn't exactly shy about telling everybody was he!

daze_gone_by,
It's funny you mention that one. I was only talking about that to the Continuation Training Team on 120 Sqn a couple of weeks ago. They were looking for some of the more unusual examples of stuff we were scrambled on whilst on SAR Standby (or more recently OPS1), to show the youngsters the sort of thing that could be thrown at them. I well remember plotting it out on the chart, thinking wtf and assuming I must have had a brain fart. What you didn't mention of course was that we were at St Mawgan.

1:00D, 6:15N. Uncle Dick as Capt.

Perhaps in the future the RN should undertake the Maritime Reconnaissance role, whatever airframe it may be based upon.

According to the FT the French are offering us the use of Atlantiques, and seeking to lease access to our future tankers. Haven't seen anything about the exact nature of the offer, nor whether HMG is minded to take it up... all may become clearer on Monday, at the meeting they have for some reason decided will no longer be held at Portsmouth.

There was one about 1976 with a 201 Sqn crew. Their photo appeared in the national press and this chap was so taken with the sheer impact of the photo that he painted it in oils and presented it to the Sqn. It was one of a trawler virtually sitting on its stern, bow skywards, in the archtypical mountainous seas.

Indeed. The article contains an number of interesting proposals and it will be interesting to see which, if any, actually come to fruition...

I think you sell the old lady short. Transit from Kinloss - 30W - Shannon or fro St Mawgan (ditto) would be only 4-5 hours giving 4 hours on task, exactly what it said on the tin. For the Shack it would have been over 5 hours just to get there.

There has been lots of talk of Maritime/SAR, what a lot of people do not realise is all the other things we have lost. I left Kinloss mid 2004, in my last year only 20% of my flying hours were Maritime the other 240hrs were spent doing other things.

PN, I'd be grateful if you would stop clouding the issue with concise facts.