You could not stop us the last time, thats why our "special friends" in France do have the Nukes on short range missiles aimed eastward.

You are broke and we are broke, not to mention the french.(or the whole of sodding Europe)
We either need politicians to deal with that situation by saving or a war. Otherwise we will be all a department of China or India shortly. (It will be a takeover, just coorperate stuff, nothing hostile....)

But, just to cheer you up, you still have the channel to protect you! Operation Sealion is cancelled permanently.

U2 - Design and Build
 

I thought I had read that the U2 went from concept to first flight in 100 days. Checking Wiki, which I know can be a bit fictional, I found the following:-

Eighty days after he began, Johnson had built his first U2; it was an efficient machine that could cruise at 90,000 ft. In August 1955, a test pilot flew the ship successfully—in a rainstorm.

Read more: Aviation: The Angel from the Skunk Works - TIME

That's the way to do it!

SAR Incident
 

The ship in distress has 111 people on board and is 230 miles SW of Cornwall. With a Nimrod locating it and either guiding other ships in the area to the location of the liferafts, or guiding helicopters to the area (if felt feasible), they have a chance. With no Nimrod, their chances of survival are dramatically reduced. I hope and pray that they are rescued.

However, this may be the first example of a major loss of life caused by the decision to take the MR2 out of service early and in turn to cancel the MRA4.

I hope those who either made or contributed to the decisions, are fully aware they may have blood on their hands. You know who you are.....

Still hoping for a successful outcome

A depressed Shadwell

Party Animal :D

A great piece of prose that says everything that those who know (and care) feel, only translated into a far more polite thread than the culpable individuals deserve! My fingers remain crossed whilst there are airframes and dedicated professionals.........

PS: You might want to amend your choice of can rattler based on the public's likely aversion to the faint scent of urine whilst bending over your cap.:ok:

Quote from Sky News - A spokesman for the Coastguard said: "Falmouth coastguard were contacted by the French MRC. We assume they received a distress call from the Athena, by a satellite distress system.

So the limit of assistance from our EU allies is purely notification, no tasking of their SAR assets? Does this bode well for the future?

Allegedly there is a French Dassault Falcon flying top cover, not sure what endurance or comms fit he has. Listening to the MCA guy on TV, he is either reluctant to go into too much detail, or the standard of info he is getting from the scene is less than he is used to.

Hope all aboard make it ashore safe and sound.

If everyone survives perfectly well without Nimrod, will you all promise to stop going on about the critical role of Nimrod in SAR?

A shameful, shameful day for all those involved in withdrawing LRMP from the UK "Area of Responsibility."

I can imagine the utter frustration and sense of impotence prevailing at Kinloss. Tragedy and farce are alive and well at the Whitehall Playhouse.

Tourist :
Tourist, that is a ridiculous question to ask; I am sure everyone wishes the crew a safe return.

How is this defined? Is it shown on a map?

I'm struggling to understand how a non-UK vessel that's 230 nm SW of Lands End, and is in fact quite a bit closer to France becomes a UK responsibility?

FWIW it's due W of Lorient.

United Kingdom Maritime Search and Rescue Region

HM Coastguard responds to Search and Rescue (SAR) incidents that occur within the UK SAR region. This region covers some 1.25 million square nautical miles of sea and over 10.5 thousand nautical miles of coastline. The eastern boundary of the UK SAR region joins those of Norway, Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium in the North Sea, France in the English Channel. To the west the UK SAR region extends into the North Atlantic to meet those of Canada, Portugal, the Irish Republic and Iceland.

http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/uksrr_irl-4.jpg

Tourist - HMG may breath a sigh of relief if they get away with this one. The fact we have had to rely on the French again within a week to cover a task that was bread and butter for the MR2 and would have been for the MRA4. This incident is at the extreme limit of the Sea King (if not beyond), and the Athena is extremely fortunate that another vessel was within one hours sailing to come to their aid. Why was the standby Herc not launched? Probably because everybody knows it is not equiped or trained for the task.

Tourist

Things might have been very different had it been:-

1. Night
2. Rough Sea
3. In the middle of winter
4. Further west - ie. beyond the reach of even the French
5. Without other vessels in close proximity


Consideration also needs to be given to the potential SAR needs of the poor brave chaps (and chapesses!) in the SK should they have to ditch a long way from shore.:yuk:

It is one thing for the govt to try and save money where there is duplication of capability, but when the one and only long range, specialised (and multi purpose) MPA asset is binned it is not so sensible a move.....:ugh:

MB

Tourist
Your post shows that clearly have not the faintest idea or clue about SAR, Nmrod or much else I suspect. As Strato Q explains, this was every day (and night) bread-and-butter stuff, and we as a nation are no longer capable of providing this service.

It is indeed extremely good luck for those that took to the life rafts that another merchant ship was close by and intercepted the Mayday and was able to assist. If nothing else, an MPA in the vicinity could have done a very quick surface plot en-route and begun allerting those close by for help.

Good luck to all those involved and to HMG - take a good look at this. The UK has FAILED miserably in it's obligation to SAR coverage. Maybe this might elicit a responce from CAS, who knows!!??

Winco

Shadwell,

Being objective about it, when is that deemed to be a Military Task (MT) (yes I know it fell under MACA/MACP and yes I have read both the NSS and the SDSR Papers)

If there is a UK need for such Civ SAR support why doesn't the respective Gov't Dept pay for it (DTI, FCO, HO?)

................Oh yes, that's right no-one has any Money! :)

Just leaving the SAR incident to one side for a second I was in London village t'other day and ran into somebody involved in the Christmas MARCOL this year who advised me it's on 15th Dec in the usual place...Could be a good one this year with whats happening...A good bash/whinge/bleat amongst serving and ex-serving maritime people may not take away the heartache a lot of you are experiencing but just for a few hours some beer and an ear may help a little...plus a little networking!

"Maybe this might elicit a responce from CAS, who knows!!??"


Not until he's safely joined the House Of Ermine Vermin... :E even then, I wouldnt bet the farm on it.

I would suggest HM Coastguard would be a suitable candidate. But it is underfinanced and relies on a lot of volunteers as does the RNLI.
Why is it this country expects essential services to be run as charity cases?
Oh of course the money gets spent on all the non essential welfare services for those that will not try to look after themselves, or those that decide to come here to be cared for by the State.
( And before I start a riot , I am not including those that are in real need of support)

Winco.

Don't be a tosser.
I am an ex SAR pilot.
You?

Trying to justify the astonishing cost of Nimrod in terms of its use as a SAR asset is just asinine.
For the same money you could have a Seaking base every 500metres-ish along the Uk coast.

The loss of Nimrod is going to hit the UK military, but in terms of cost per life saved it is a total no-go.

If anyone on here thinks that todays little SAR is going to make anyone at the top think again then you are naive in the extreme.
Even if every person on board perished, and it happened every month, it would still be a miss-use of funds if SAR was the Nimrods reason for being, because the same money would save countless more lives in the NHS for example.

This would be true even if the Nimrod could actually "rescue" which it cannot. The boat had life-rafts and radios many of. They used them. Nimrod would be convenient, but certainly not essential.
In my years of SAR I can think of one time when a Nimrod made a difference. Very long ranger, found the fishing boat for us thus allowing us to use all our limited endurance for winching. Asking around the crewroom, most people are of the same opinion.

Justifying Nimrod for SAR is childishness.
Nimrod is justifiable for UK defence. Who could put a price on that?
SAR is merely a convenient ability.

Exactly. The Nimrod could search whereas the SK has a much more limited capability at range or where the search area is large.